Poll: Should Apple comply with the order to unlock the San Bernardino iPhone?
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FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
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23-02-2016, 08:11 AM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2016 08:17 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 06:16 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Of course, anyone who is or has been married, or indeed entered into any social contract (words chosen deliberately), will know that for harmonious coexistence, life is a trade-off between freedom and privacy vs. security and safety.

Governance systems can be tested for robustness by up-scaling or down-scaling as a thought experiment...

For example, would you read your partners diary if you suspected them of infidelity?
If yes, you're with the FBI. If no, you're with Apple.

What if you thought your accountant was stealing your money? Investigate or not?

Consider

So I think it boils down to (like much of law) on intent, consent and the four reasons to monitor and measure: To validate prior decisions, to justify future decisions, to set direction and/or to intervene.

Smile

This is exactly why I voted “maybe”, and in the deep recesses of my lizard-like brain I think Apple should figure out how to help without giving the FBI (fox) the keys to the hen house.

ps But in the basement of the dark recesses of my lizard-like brain the echoes of screams saying “don’t fucking do it” can be heard. Sadcryface

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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23-02-2016, 08:39 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
Criminal investigations already include things like searching receipts, finance ledgers, diaries, computer files, emails, Google searches, visited websites, GPS information, phone records, and yes, cell phones, (it's just that they can't hack into this particular brand device), and you rightly don't hear anyone complaining about privacy in all those other cases. This constant drumbeat of "privacy" is insane. Notwithstanding that they're both dead, they were fucking CRIMINALS! As such, they forfeited their right to privacy, just like with any other criminal investigation.

Should Apple be forced to hack it for them? I'm not sure. Personally, I'm not sure why the FBI can't figure it out themselves. That said, if Apple does not comply, wouldn't that set a new precedent for carriers to refuse cooperation with things like phone records?

Also, Android, Blackberry and other non iPhone devices don't seem to be an issue with these criminal investigations. To all you "privacy" advocates - is it okay for the FBI to search those devices since they are able to hack into them, but not okay for them to search Apple devices? Does Apple get to operate on a different standard just because the FBI can't hack into their devices?

STOP THE MADNESS!!!!
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23-02-2016, 08:42 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 08:07 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 11:51 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  I thought that Big Brother was an allegory for god. Maybe I'm wrong.

FatBaldHobbit already mentioned George Orwell, read 1984.

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/n/...t-a-glance

[Image: 1091219915-bigbrother.jpg]

I've read 1984.

Big Brother always struck me as an allegory for god.

"Big Brother is watching you." sounds no different to me than "Heavenly Father is watching you."

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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23-02-2016, 08:45 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
The issue is not with these guys, the issue is with granting sweeping powers to government - incompetent, corrupt, venal, self-serving government - and cops, to spy on their constituents. Privacy *is* a big deal. Tell me cops won't use such tech and so forth to spy on their lovers, to cover up dodgy deals and so forth.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-02-2016, 08:50 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 08:42 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 08:07 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  FatBaldHobbit already mentioned George Orwell, read 1984.

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/n/...t-a-glance

[Image: 1091219915-bigbrother.jpg]

I've read 1984.

Big Brother always struck me as an allegory for god.

"Big Brother is watching you." sounds no different to me than "Heavenly Father is watching you."

That does not seem to have been Orwell's intent.
However, it is about totalitarian government and society, so it would apply to a theocracy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-02-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
One more thing I'd like to add - If this was related to Timothy McVeigh's iPhone, Apple would be falling all over themselves in their cooperation with the FBI. I believe that since it's not a McVeigh type, but instead a Muslim, Apple is making a political statement supporting the notion of those poor, persecuted Muslims.

Just a thought ...
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23-02-2016, 08:59 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 08:56 AM)TheBear Wrote:  One more thing I'd like to add - If this was related to Timothy McVeigh's iPhone, Apple would be falling all over themselves in their cooperation with the FBI. I believe that since it's not a McVeigh type, but instead a Muslim, Apple is making a political statement supporting the notion of those poor, persecuted Muslims.

Just a thought ...

Just not a very good thought.
This is about the risk to the security of the millions of iPhones.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-02-2016, 09:02 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 08:39 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Criminal investigations already include things like searching receipts, finance ledgers, diaries, computer files, emails, Google searches, visited websites, GPS information, phone records, and yes, cell phones, (it's just that they can't hack into this particular brand device), and you rightly don't hear anyone complaining about privacy in all those other cases. This constant drumbeat of "privacy" is insane. Notwithstanding that they're both dead, they were fucking CRIMINALS! As such, they forfeited their right to privacy, just like with any other criminal investigation.

You haven't heard of lawsuits into illegal search and seizures, the use of social media by the government, mass cell phone monitoring? All of these are issues. All of these have been widely reported in the media.

Criminal investigations also include requirements such as Search Warrants, another key right that the government has already repeatedly violated.

It boggles my mind that people are willing to throw away their civil rights, with no thoughts as to the ramifications.

(23-02-2016 08:39 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Should Apple be forced to hack it for them? I'm not sure. Personally, I'm not sure why the FBI can't figure it out themselves. That said, if Apple does not comply, wouldn't that set a new precedent for carriers to refuse cooperation with things like phone records?

That is a misstatement of the issue. The FBI wants Apple to create hacking software, not turn over records. That software could be abused. It should also be noted, that if the FBI had not fucked up and reset the phone, they would have the information they desire.

(23-02-2016 08:39 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Also, Android, Blackberry and other non iPhone devices don't seem to be an issue with these criminal investigations. To all you "privacy" advocates - is it okay for the FBI to search those devices since they are able to hack into them, but not okay for them to search Apple devices? Does Apple get to operate on a different standard just because the FBI can't hack into their devices?

STOP THE MADNESS!!!!

I am not limiting my comments to this brand. If the case involved Android or Blackberry, my views would be the same.

Have you read Orwell?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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23-02-2016, 09:04 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 08:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 08:56 AM)TheBear Wrote:  One more thing I'd like to add - If this was related to Timothy McVeigh's iPhone, Apple would be falling all over themselves in their cooperation with the FBI. I believe that since it's not a McVeigh type, but instead a Muslim, Apple is making a political statement supporting the notion of those poor, persecuted Muslims.

Just a thought ...

Just not a very good thought.
This is about the risk to the security of the millions of iPhones.

... which sounds very caring n'all.

Call me cynical but could it be "about the risk to" market-share relating to the perception of lack of "security of the millions of iPhones".

Drinking Beverage

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23-02-2016, 09:04 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 08:56 AM)TheBear Wrote:  One more thing I'd like to add - If this was related to Timothy McVeigh's iPhone, Apple would be falling all over themselves in their cooperation with the FBI. I believe that since it's not a McVeigh type, but instead a Muslim, Apple is making a political statement supporting the notion of those poor, persecuted Muslims.

Just a thought ...

Considering the laxity in the government response to the McVeigh types in Oregon, I would say that you are wrong.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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