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FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
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23-02-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 09:41 AM)TheBear Wrote:  What's wrong with the idea of taking that device to Apple, have Apple extract the information from that device only, turn the files over to the FBI, then destroy the hacking program once they got what they wanted? Is that too far fetched?

Cos then you have to trust Apple - there's still no oversight, and now it's a private company who's gonna ask you to just trust them. How'd you feel if evidence at a trial was of this flavour?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-02-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
Here is Bill Gate’s take

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/bill-ga...d=37133232

"Nobody’s talking about a backdoor, so that’s not the right question. This is a specific case where the government is asking for access to information. They’re not asking for some general thing, they’re asking for a particular case," Gates said in the interview. He said the government is only looking for “a specific set of information” and not a master key to break into other phones.” ~ Gates

from the same article

"Google CEO Sundar Pichai, who has worked closely with the company's open source Android operating system, was an early supporter of Apple's battle against the federal order.

In a series of tweets last week, Pichai warned that creating a backdoor for law enforcement to bypass security measures could compromise users' privacy.

"We build secure products to keep your information safe and we give law enforcement access to data based on valid legal orders," he wrote. "But that’s wholly different than requiring companies to enable hacking of customer devices & data. Could be a troubling precedent.” ~ Pichai

and Tim Cook

"The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically," he said. “This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by ‘brute force' trying thousands or millions of combinations with the speed of a modern computer." ~ Cook

It is hard to decipher (pun intended) just what exactly the FBI is asking for when I read all these different takes on the situation. I have no doubt the FBI would love to have a Master Key, if you will, to all encryptions, but will take whatever they can get.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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23-02-2016, 10:19 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 09:41 AM)TheBear Wrote:  What's wrong with the idea of taking that device to Apple, have Apple extract the information from that device only, turn the files over to the FBI, then destroy the hacking program once they got what they wanted? Is that too far fetched?

Cos then you have to trust Apple - there's still no oversight, and now it's a private company who's gonna ask you to just trust them. How'd you feel if evidence at a trial was of this flavour?

You do have a valid point, and I did think about that, and how it would happen. I envisioned FBI agents standing in the lab, making sure it got destroyed.

I don't know. It's a tough call for me. I'm still leaning towards the FBI being able to do their own work on this.

And I'm pretty sure a 16 year-old hacker in China would make short work of it. Big Grin
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23-02-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
Should Facebook and Twitter become uncooperative whenever a lawful investigation asks for profile information?
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23-02-2016, 10:35 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:31 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Should Facebook and Twitter become uncooperative whenever a lawful investigation asks for profile information?

Poor analogy. Public information is not the same as private information.
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23-02-2016, 10:44 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 10:31 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Should Facebook and Twitter become uncooperative whenever a lawful investigation asks for profile information?

Poor analogy. Public information is not the same as private information.

Yet, they both have privacy settings. Consider
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23-02-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:19 AM)TheBear Wrote:  I envisioned FBI agents standing in the lab, making sure it got destroyed.

Do you honestly believe that would happen? Are you that naïve?

Why would they destroy it? How many "terrorist actions" happen every day?
How many of the terrorists use cell phones?
If they destroyed it, they'd have to go through the legal process next time.
It would save taxpayer lives and dollars to keep it.

And, wow, that would come in handy with keeping track of their kids/spouses/etc.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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23-02-2016, 10:55 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:31 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Should Facebook and Twitter become uncooperative whenever a lawful investigation asks for profile information?

You keep comparing an apple to an orange.

Subpoenas can be issued to Facebook to give up information. Cell phone providers can be subpoenaed to provide intell on what numbers called and even since they're also an ISP, they might have information about websites they used while the phone wasn't connected to wifi.

This is completely different. The FBI BRICKED an iPhone. They want apple to provide a back door to see if there's anything worth while on it.

Never mind the fact the murderers destroyed their personal phones, and a computer hard drive that probably did contain lots of information.

The iPhone in question was an employer issued one.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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23-02-2016, 11:19 AM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2016 11:23 AM by TheBear.)
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:50 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 10:19 AM)TheBear Wrote:  I envisioned FBI agents standing in the lab, making sure it got destroyed.

Do you honestly believe that would happen? Are you that naïve?

Why would they destroy it? How many "terrorist actions" happen every day?
How many of the terrorists use cell phones?
If they destroyed it, they'd have to go through the legal process next time.
It would save taxpayer lives and dollars to keep it.

And, wow, that would come in handy with keeping track of their kids/spouses/etc.

You make some good points.

On the flip side of that, if the FBI figures out the code, confidence would be high that they would keep it for future investigations.


My bottom line stance is this - In situations involving known criminals who have committed crimes, there is no 'off limits' regarding their privacy when it comes to lawful investigations. They have forfeited those rights.

Apple might already have the codes. They may have had them all along. I don't see how cooperating on a case by case basis, in lawful investigations, is somehow going to open the floodgates of abuse and disregard for due process for every last iPhone user's privacy. To me, that's a slippery slope falacy and hyperbole.
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23-02-2016, 11:26 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:55 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 10:31 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Should Facebook and Twitter become uncooperative whenever a lawful investigation asks for profile information?

You keep comparing an apple to an orange.

Subpoenas can be issued to Facebook to give up information. Cell phone providers can be subpoenaed to provide intell on what numbers called and even since they're also an ISP, they might have information about websites they used while the phone wasn't connected to wifi.

This is completely different. The FBI BRICKED an iPhone. They want apple to provide a back door to see if there's anything worth while on it.

Never mind the fact the murderers destroyed their personal phones, and a computer hard drive that probably did contain lots of information.

The iPhone in question was an employer issued one.

I get what you're saying, and overall I agree.
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