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FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
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23-02-2016, 11:35 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 11:19 AM)TheBear Wrote:  You make some good points.

As do you.

If it does come to pass, I hope your scenario is the result.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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23-02-2016, 12:58 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:09 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  It is hard to decipher (pun intended) just what exactly the FBI is asking for when I read all these different takes on the situation.

From what I've read, they want Apple to disable the code that counts password attempts and wipes the phone after 10 tries. That technically isn't a backdoor but would still open the way for easier hacking on anybody's device.

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23-02-2016, 01:19 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 09:20 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 08:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  Just not a very good thought.
This is about the risk to the security of the millions of iPhones.

I disagree. The sky isn't falling, and the 4th Amendment hasn't been repealed. And what about Android and all those other non iPhone devises that FBI can and do hack into all the time during lawful investigations? Should they cease and desist? And what about phone records from carriers? Do they need to start refusing to release phone call records in criminal investigations? Was it unconstitutional for the FBI to enter their house and go through all their personal effects?

Is Apple a god, and somehow above the law, just because they invented a device which is difficult to hack?

You seem to be missing the point. Apple would have to create a tool to do this. It is a Pandora's Box.

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23-02-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
Having read every post in this important and well nuanced discussion, I hereby change my vote from "Yes" to "No", with a "Maybe" valence.

I'm not so young as to automatically mistrust the government, and not so old to realize that "The policeman is your friend" may not apply to all. I have not only read 1984 but also Hitchens' Why Orwell Matters.

What follows are some loosely connected thoughts on the matter:

We give Franklin too little credit for his quote on liberty...it was serious business back then, and applies equally seriously today.

Atheists in particular might keep our own history in mind...we are never far from the auto-de-fe' pillar. A serious presidential contender that energizes willing minions and identifies the enemy-of-the-month so easily makes me shiver.

If the Chinese government made the same request to Apple, we would never hear of it. Apple is, to my knowledge, still in China.

It is my understanding that the mechanism of public key encription would allow Apple to furnish a one-time-only key to any phone.

Samsung has just revealed that their smart TVs in voice mode record every word and pass the data to a third party. They warn users to not discuss personal items in front of their device.

When asked if the subconcious mind control techniques that he revealed in his book, Subliminal Seduction, would be used by the media, Vance Packard replied, "Do you think that if they have that capability, they will not use it?

May we live in interesting times...I give you the future.

BTW, forget the "maybe"....Let's just go with No".

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurus (341-270B.C.E.)
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23-02-2016, 05:54 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
Regardless of one's stance on the issue, telling the feds to kiss their ass was a good marketing move. Hundreds of millions of dollars couldn't have bought advertising like this.

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24-02-2016, 01:07 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(23-02-2016 10:44 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 10:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Poor analogy. Public information is not the same as private information.

Yet, they both have privacy settings. Consider

And yet they both have terms in the EULAs regarding information sharing with law enforcement. Does Apple have such terms in theirs regarding their encryption?

Poor analogy.
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24-02-2016, 01:17 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(24-02-2016 01:07 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 10:44 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Yet, they both have privacy settings. Consider

And yet they both have terms in the EULAs regarding information sharing with law enforcement. Does Apple have such terms in theirs regarding their encryption?

Poor analogy.

That's not really an issue IMO. Protection of majority trumps EULA. If you really want info to be private, don't put it on the phone/web/whatever.

The issue is that computers in general and phones in particular are ubiquitous, and that government is asking for power to spy on their citizens. It always ends badly. Even if a really good government, competent, not-corrupt, the whole nine yards, were in office and asked for this, there's no guarantee that once they have it they will remain such paragons. Better not to give it to them. If privacy is surrendered it will be a long hard road to claw anything back.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-02-2016, 12:15 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
The shooter's phone was owned by the county and used for county business. The innocent people he called for county business certainly have an expectation of privacy. In fact, whether or not it was a county owned phone, innocent callers and callees have an expectation of privacy. If the feds hack that phone they will certainly investigate all callers trying to sort out the innocent from the guilty. If you believe that the innocent people will be identified quickly and freed from suspicion, you are supremely naive. The FBI, like most law enforcement agencies, is filled with fuck-ups.
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24-02-2016, 12:39 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(24-02-2016 12:15 PM)Black Eagle Wrote:  The shooter's phone was owned by the county and used for county business. The innocent people he called for county business certainly have an expectation of privacy. In fact, whether or not it was a county owned phone, innocent callers and callees have an expectation of privacy. If the feds hack that phone they will certainly investigate all callers trying to sort out the innocent from the guilty. If you believe that the innocent people will be identified quickly and freed from suspicion, you are supremely naive. The FBI, like most law enforcement agencies, is filled with fuck-ups.

I'm pretty sure the FBI already has the phone records for that phone for a while now. You don't need a phone to get that information. All calls made and recieved are stored by your cell provider. Just like your landline (if you have one).

You also don't need the phone to get websites they visited as long as it went through the cell phone provider and not an individual or public wifi.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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24-02-2016, 12:58 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 05:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 09:21 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Fourth, to quote Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

We give up essential freedom of movement every time we obey traffic laws. So there's that.

I'm not disagreeing with the broader point but sometimes I think there's such a thing as being too pithy.
You're such a contrarian sometimes. Dodgy

I'm definitely on the side of Apple when it comes to this. The different branches of the US government have a long history of abusing their power and the FBI is no exception to that. There is zero doubt in my mind that they would abuse this power as well.

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