FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
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08-12-2013, 05:06 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 04:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  You're seriously going to compare your convoluted and paranoid questions to statements of fact?

Sure. What copy/paste what statement in my original post, or in those 6 questions, you found to be so "convoluted"? I suspect nothing in there was terribly complicated, so you'll have a hard time pasting an actual verbatim phrase that is convoluted. But I welcome you to try, and if you find one, I'll try to rephrase it in a more straightforward manner so you can understand it.
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08-12-2013, 07:12 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(27-11-2013 05:39 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Last year I discovered a revolutionary new service, 23andme, founded by the wife of Sergei Brin (google's co-founder). For $99 they send you a DNA collection kit (swab the mouth), and they sequence your DNA and report what gene sequences you have that predispose you to certain diseases. I learned I have a sequence that makes me 3x more likely to develop diabetes, and they even gave me links to the research to prove the connection. So I took some tests which showed I was starting to develop insulin resistance, which, likely would have led to diabetes 20 years from now. Empowered with this knowledge, I cut out all refined sugars and now know what to look for, significantly improving my odds of living to a ripe old age, so that I'll be able to taunt @Chas and @Cjlr for many years to come.

But, what's REALLY significant about 23andme is that they collect a database of millions of people's DNA, and provide a health portal to report what medical conditions you suffer, so that over the coming decades, they'd be able to run the data through pattern recognition algorithms and discover links between certain diseases and genetic markers, which could lead to radically advanced medical care, and early diagnosis.

This month, however, the FDA has banned all such genome research and ordered 23andme and all other genetic testing outfits to shut down. Of course, if the FDA wasn't allowed to use guns and violence, then they'd only be able to publish a “recommendation”, letting informed consumers decide for themselves. Sadly stupid voters have empowered them to use violence, which means that no matter how much I want their product, and how much they want to offer it, they've got a gun to their heads.

What justification does the FDA give for “regulating” genetic testing, since their charter is for food & drugs only? None. They're out of control and just did a power-grab and took over, with no Congressional authorization, and thus no authorization from the people.

What excuse does the FDA give? They say the science of predicting diseases through DNA sequences is unproven. Well no shit, every new breakthrough is unproven at first. It would have taken decades to collect enough data to know how accurate the predictions are. Thankfully the FDA didn't exist in the 19th century or they similarly would have banned germ theory for the same reasons, under pressure from the 'blood-letting' industry, and today we'd still be dying at the age of 39 with drill holes bored into our skulls.

So let's look at the effects of these anti-science, anti-intellectual, club-wielding neanderthals:

1. Likely millions will die who otherwise would have taken the test and, like me, been able to take preventative measure. It will never go down in history like the tyrants who openly killed millions of people for their political ambitions. But just because you can't see or count the deaths doesn't mean they're not there.
2. Who knows what revolutionary medical advances would have come from having decades of medical history cross-referenced to DNA sequences. We'll never know now, and maybe millions, or even billions, will die as a result. Of course it's impossible to ever measure a negative; we'll never know what breakthroughs went undiscovered.
3. Imagine you're an investor or entrepreneur considering starting up a venture like this. Surely the fact that you can invest millions of dollars and years of your life developing a great product that people love, and the Feds can take it from you in an instant for political ambitions, puts a damper on this. Over the next 40 years, how many new high-tech, say, Chinese companies, would have been American companies if the Feds weren't so anti-progress?

The big question is why shut down something that poses zero health risks, harms nobody, and can only lead to new knowledge? While nobody knows for sure, there is a compelling theory. See, everybody knows Obamacare is going to drive health care costs through the roof, and this is already costing the Democrats dearly. Today's poll shows they're likely to lose seats in both the House and Senate because of the Obamacare backlash, and, next year, as Obamacare kicks in and drives costs through the roof, it's only going to get worse. Preventative medicine, like this genetic testing, of course saves both lives and dollars in the long run by helping people, like me, nip problems in the bud early. But, naturally, there is a modest cost NOW, both for the genetic testing, and also for the diagnostic tests (MRI's, etc.) it triggers. So, by banning preventative medicine today, it will likely reduce health care expenditures now, in 2014, and when the time comes to pay the price, it will be years in the future and people will have forgotten all about this mess and blame it on others. Typical.

Yes. It's all one big conspiracy theory.....

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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08-12-2013, 07:26 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 07:12 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(27-11-2013 05:39 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Last year I discovered a revolutionary new service, 23andme, founded by the wife of Sergei Brin (google's co-founder). For $99 they send you a DNA collection kit (swab the mouth), and they sequence your DNA and report what gene sequences you have that predispose you to certain diseases. I learned I have a sequence that makes me 3x more likely to develop diabetes, and they even gave me links to the research to prove the connection. So I took some tests which showed I was starting to develop insulin resistance, which, likely would have led to diabetes 20 years from now. Empowered with this knowledge, I cut out all refined sugars and now know what to look for, significantly improving my odds of living to a ripe old age, so that I'll be able to taunt @Chas and @Cjlr for many years to come.

But, what's REALLY significant about 23andme is that they collect a database of millions of people's DNA, and provide a health portal to report what medical conditions you suffer, so that over the coming decades, they'd be able to run the data through pattern recognition algorithms and discover links between certain diseases and genetic markers, which could lead to radically advanced medical care, and early diagnosis.

This month, however, the FDA has banned all such genome research and ordered 23andme and all other genetic testing outfits to shut down. Of course, if the FDA wasn't allowed to use guns and violence, then they'd only be able to publish a “recommendation”, letting informed consumers decide for themselves. Sadly stupid voters have empowered them to use violence, which means that no matter how much I want their product, and how much they want to offer it, they've got a gun to their heads.

What justification does the FDA give for “regulating” genetic testing, since their charter is for food & drugs only? None. They're out of control and just did a power-grab and took over, with no Congressional authorization, and thus no authorization from the people.

What excuse does the FDA give? They say the science of predicting diseases through DNA sequences is unproven. Well no shit, every new breakthrough is unproven at first. It would have taken decades to collect enough data to know how accurate the predictions are. Thankfully the FDA didn't exist in the 19th century or they similarly would have banned germ theory for the same reasons, under pressure from the 'blood-letting' industry, and today we'd still be dying at the age of 39 with drill holes bored into our skulls.

So let's look at the effects of these anti-science, anti-intellectual, club-wielding neanderthals:

1. Likely millions will die who otherwise would have taken the test and, like me, been able to take preventative measure. It will never go down in history like the tyrants who openly killed millions of people for their political ambitions. But just because you can't see or count the deaths doesn't mean they're not there.
2. Who knows what revolutionary medical advances would have come from having decades of medical history cross-referenced to DNA sequences. We'll never know now, and maybe millions, or even billions, will die as a result. Of course it's impossible to ever measure a negative; we'll never know what breakthroughs went undiscovered.
3. Imagine you're an investor or entrepreneur considering starting up a venture like this. Surely the fact that you can invest millions of dollars and years of your life developing a great product that people love, and the Feds can take it from you in an instant for political ambitions, puts a damper on this. Over the next 40 years, how many new high-tech, say, Chinese companies, would have been American companies if the Feds weren't so anti-progress?

The big question is why shut down something that poses zero health risks, harms nobody, and can only lead to new knowledge? While nobody knows for sure, there is a compelling theory. See, everybody knows Obamacare is going to drive health care costs through the roof, and this is already costing the Democrats dearly. Today's poll shows they're likely to lose seats in both the House and Senate because of the Obamacare backlash, and, next year, as Obamacare kicks in and drives costs through the roof, it's only going to get worse. Preventative medicine, like this genetic testing, of course saves both lives and dollars in the long run by helping people, like me, nip problems in the bud early. But, naturally, there is a modest cost NOW, both for the genetic testing, and also for the diagnostic tests (MRI's, etc.) it triggers. So, by banning preventative medicine today, it will likely reduce health care expenditures now, in 2014, and when the time comes to pay the price, it will be years in the future and people will have forgotten all about this mess and blame it on others. Typical.

Yes. It's all one big conspiracy theory.....

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

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08-12-2013, 07:27 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2013 07:34 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
Frank - you know how I told you that you are frustrating to talk to because you don't answer actual questions, but with questions. Also often comparing apples to oranges in this paranoid "the corporations and the government are trying to eat our brains" type thinking...

Yeah well I've read chas, cj, and about 5 other people say the exact same thing of you. Since none of us collaborated, Coincidence? Me thinks not.

If enough people tell you that you are crazy, it's time to consider a seeing a psychiatrist. You know, the one your personal self insurance system can so deftly pay for....

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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08-12-2013, 08:04 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 07:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 07:12 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Yes. It's all one big conspiracy theory.....

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

We gonna die aren't we? This shit always ends the same.

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08-12-2013, 08:21 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 07:27 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Yeah well I've read chas, cj, and about 5 other people say the exact same thing of you. Since none of us collaborated, Coincidence? Me thinks not.

If enough people tell you that you are crazy, it's time to consider a seeing a psychiatrist. You know, the one your personal self insurance system can so deftly pay for....

ROFL, this is no different than when a Muslim says to a Christian "all us Muslims reached the conclusion that you Christians are wrong. Since none of us collaborated, Coincidence? That proves we're right and you're crazy" And the Christian replies "No, but all of us Christians reached the conclusion that you Muslims are wrong, and we didn't collaborate either. So this proves that WE are right and YOU are crazy." Whereas the intellectual replies "You both are wrong, and here's the facts, here's the data, here's the logic".

Same thing here. Of course all liberals are going to conclude that all libertarians are crazy. Duh. The difference between our two sides is that on your side the "proof" which you just claimed proves you guys are right is simply that all of you agree. Just like Muslims and Christians.

Naturally, we libertarians COULD use the same argument to explain why you liberals and conservatives are wrong, but instead we rely on facts, data and logic, and leave opinions out of it.

The reason I think I'm right in this debate IS precisely what you just said. When I ask a really basic question like "In the 2014 election year, will the Democrats benefit by making sure people don't get unnecessary tests, thus keeping insurance premiums lower and not giving the Republicans fuel for the fire?" all 5 of you liberals respond the exact same way. You all refuse to answer yes or no. You're all trapped with no way to respond to that answer. So, therefore all of you agree that this means you have won the debate.

See the difference between you liberals and us libertarians? The rule I laid out is that when one side asks a question and the other side cannot answer it, that means the former has won. My rule applies no matter who is debating, no matter what the subject is, and whether I'm the one asking questions or unable to answer them. Your rule, that you liberals have won the debate because you all think alike, to me that speaks mountains.
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08-12-2013, 08:22 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 07:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  WAKE UP SHEEPLE

I'm still waiting for any of you guys to copy/paste anything that I said which was not accurate. Do you seriously think that by changing the subject I'm going to forget this point? Understand that trick works with your fellow liberals, and they'll all pat you on the back. But it won't work with me. Sorry.
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08-12-2013, 09:16 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 08:22 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 07:26 PM)cjlr Wrote:  WAKE UP SHEEPLE

I'm still waiting for any of you guys to copy/paste anything that I said which was not accurate.

Regulators began attempting to work with 23AndMe in 2009.

So, uh, I guess the ACA made them do it before it was written, then...

(08-12-2013 08:22 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Do you seriously think that by changing the subject I'm going to forget this point? Understand that trick works with your fellow liberals, and they'll all pat you on the back. But it won't work with me. Sorry.

Uh oh, frankksj. You're going to piss off the reptiloids with talk like that.

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08-12-2013, 09:55 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 09:16 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 08:22 PM)frankksj Wrote:  I'm still waiting for any of you guys to copy/paste anything that I said which was not accurate.

Regulators began attempting to work with 23AndMe in 2009.

So, uh, I guess the ACA made them do it before it was written, then...

(08-12-2013 08:22 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Do you seriously think that by changing the subject I'm going to forget this point? Understand that trick works with your fellow liberals, and they'll all pat you on the back. But it won't work with me. Sorry.

All you did was change the subject again. You STILL never copied/pasted. Here's a hint. On your browser, highlight my original phrase, then choose "Edit", "Copy". Now hit "reply", and choose "Edit", "Paste". Got it. Not too complicated, even for a physicist.

The more you reply WITHOUT pasting anything I said, the more you prove how hopelessly lost you are, off battling your strawmen. _IF_ you were debating something I actually said, OBVIOUSLY you would copy/paste it.

But because you're off battling some fantasy strawman that I said the ACA caused the FDA to start their action against 23andme you do not have the luxury of copying/pasting.

I'll ask you again. Copy/paste anything I said that was inaccurate. This thread has gone on SOOOO long, and I keep making this challenge over and over and over, and all you Obamacare-defenders keep hurling insults, but you STILL cannot copy/paste anything that I said which is not 100% accurate. It must be eating you guys alive.
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08-12-2013, 10:49 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 09:55 PM)frankksj Wrote:  But because you're off battling some fantasy strawman that I said the ACA caused the FDA to start their action against 23andme you do not have the luxury of copying/pasting.

I'll ask you again. Copy/paste anything I said that was inaccurate. This thread has gone on SOOOO long, and I keep making this challenge over and over and over, and all you Obamacare-defenders keep hurling insults, but you STILL cannot copy/paste anything that I said which is not 100% accurate. It must be eating you guys alive.

(27-11-2013 05:39 PM)frankksj Wrote:  This month, however, the FDA has banned all such genome research and ordered 23andme and all other genetic testing outfits to shut down.
(27-11-2013 08:23 PM)frankksj Wrote:  It's true that DNA testing is preventative medicine, and the FDA has banned it.

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