FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
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28-11-2013, 11:02 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 10:44 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 09:46 AM)Ohio Sky Wrote:  I'm still confused at to how this scenario has fuck to do with Obamacare

Follow the money trail. The FDA's stated concern is "the risk that a direct-to-consumer test result may be used by a patient to self-manage". Well EVEN IF 23andme's test was wrong in telling me I had a risk of diabetes what's the risk? 23andme isn't giving me dangerous drugs to take. The "risk" is that I may want unnecessary tests, blood work, MRI's, etc.
, but Obamacare just strengthened the incentive to do so, especially since voters in 2014 are going to be watching very closely how much their insurance premiums go up.

There is no link to a financial motive, no link to "strengthened incentive" .
To jump to these conclusions you must have such an aversion to Obamacare that its affecting your rational logic, or just “the implausible visions of a lunatic fringe.”

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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28-11-2013, 11:35 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 11:02 AM)sporehux Wrote:  There is no link to a financial motive, no link to "strengthened incentive" .
To jump to these conclusions you must have such an aversion to Obamacare that its affecting your rational logic, or just “the implausible visions of a lunatic fringe.”

Really? If it's irrational then surely you can answer 4 basic questions. If you run from the questions, that will indicate who is being irrational.

1. If 23andme gave me bad information and I rushed out and got some unnecessary tests, why is this "bad" when economists keep telling us we should spend more?

2. Before Obamacare, when my Blue Cross health insurance only covered medical emergencies, who paid for any unnecessary tests I ordered? Did I bear them alone, or did the public (ie voters)?

3. Now that Obamacare passed and I am forced against my will to buy a "comprehensive" health plan, who ultimately pays for my unnecessary tests?

4. Do you acknowledge that the "risk" which the FDA has presented is that people might get unnecessary tests?
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28-11-2013, 11:46 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
The FDA says it is concerned that consumers would misunderstand genetic marker information and self treat."

Its a heath concern, not a financial one, your finding a Obamacare conspiracy because that's what you want to see.

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28-11-2013, 12:48 PM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2013 01:09 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
Looks like they're open for business to me. Only States they're restricted in are MD and NY. Looks like it's a State issue. Figured you'd want it that way, Frank. So what exactly are you bitching about?

[Image: MD.png]
[Image: NY.png]

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28-11-2013, 01:23 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 11:46 AM)sporehux Wrote:  The FDA says it is concerned that consumers would misunderstand genetic marker information and self treat."

Its a heath concern, not a financial one, your finding a Obamacare conspiracy because that's what you want to see.

You ran from my basic questions. That says a lot more than what you actually did respond with. Yes, the FDA is concerned about self-treating. But, if you get an indication that you have a predisposition to something, what is self-treating? The only thing you can do is (a) get tests or (b) take preventative measures, like exercising more and eating healthier. There's no possible harm in "self-treating". Nobody's going to take drugs as a result of a 23andme test, since that needs a doctor's prescription anyway. A woman isn't going to cut her own breasts off; a doctor will weigh her concerns. There's no harm to "self-treating" EXCEPT a financial one. And the financial harm ONLY exists because health-care has been collectivized. That's the problem with collectivism. If everybody puts their money into a common pot, and then everybody's expenses are paid from it, the only expenses that can get approved are those that majority (>=51%) deems worthy. But this eliminates all scientific progress since advances come from off-the-wall radical ideas that the majority initially rejects. The only way civilization advances is when individuals are free to pursue their own "wild" goals, because every once in a while, one of them is on to something.

Obamacare _IS_ very much part of the problem because it collectivizes health care. Now, if I want something, like a DNA test or an MRI, I cannot get it unless it's already so mainstream that 51% of the public approves. If it's a radical new idea, it won't be allowed. This is what happened with 23andme. DNA sequencing like that is NOT mainstream. There's nowhere near 51% acceptance. Only a tiny percentage of the population has any interest in it. Because the Obamacare health-management system collectivizes all medical expenses, now us nerds who think 23andme is cool, are banned from doing business with them, because the majority thinks it will hurt them financially to pay for our hypochondriac-induced tests.

This isn't a conspiracy theory. This is simple math and basic economics, and it applies to everything you collectivize--not just health care.
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28-11-2013, 01:25 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 12:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Looks like they're open for business to me... So what exactly are you bitching about?

It's because they were served a 15 day notice to cease and desist. Wait another 10 days or so and then check back.
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28-11-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
Looks like it's a little more complicated than what's been discussed so far.

Why The FDA Can't Be Flexible With 23andMe, By Law

"Where 23andMe got into trouble was regarding those results on disease risk and drug response, potentially actionable results. The FDA, whose specialists had been working with the company for almost two years on the issue, declared that the analytical reports provided to customers rendered the saliva collection kits a 'medical device,' the same class of products that range from blood pressure cuffs and diabetic glucose monitoring gadgets to pacemakers and implantable cardiac defibrillators."

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And I will show you something different from either
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Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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28-11-2013, 03:34 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 02:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Looks like it's a little more complicated than what's been discussed so far.

Even _IF_ the FDA, by law, had no choice but to consider a tube you spit in to be a "medical device" (which I don't buy), what does that change?

23andme is cutting edge stuff, amassing an incredibly valuable database, and, given the millions they've invested so far, the only intelligent move for them right now, imo, is to leave the US and setup shop in another less-regulated country that embraces high tech rather than shut it down. I abandoned the US years ago and my business is based out of Hong Kong, and many American entrepreneurs I've met are doing the same thing because in the US, even if you make a great product and put 110% in it, there's a good chance the government will shut it down, either through regulation or the screwed up patent system, and you risk losing everything. And _IF_ you happen to make it past all the obstacles the government puts in place and you become successful, you'll be labelled an evil 1%'er and people will be protesting in front of your home with pitchforks demanding the government take everything you got. So it's a no-win situation.

Just try to imagine the economic impact this will have 10, 20, 30 years from now, when high-tech shops like 23andme are making innovative, breakthrough products, and all the jobs and money are going to some other country because the US basically said "we don't want you, you're not welcome here".
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28-11-2013, 03:39 PM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2013 04:37 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 03:34 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Even _IF_ the FDA, by law, had no choice but to consider a tube you spit in to be a "medical device" (which I don't buy), what does that change?

23andme is cutting edge stuff, amassing an incredibly valuable database, and, given the millions they've invested so far, the only intelligent move for them right now, imo, is to leave the US and setup shop in another less-regulated country that embraces high tech rather than shut it down.

I'd save that option as a last resort. They can always go that route. But prior to that, I'd try to force the issue.

"One might be inclined to say that this isn’t going to end well. But I submit that the 23andMe case will prove to be a watershed in deciding how we are going to regulate individual freedom of access to one’s own DNA sequence, who is qualified to interpret the results, and who is responsible for personal or medical actions following from the information provided."

ZRT in Oregon has been offering hormonal mail-in saliva testing for 15 years now. I guess the main difference between ZRT and 23andMe is ZRT only reports the results of the test. That's it. They figure if you're informed enough to order the test, you're informed enough to interpret the results. If 23andMe did the same this wouldn't even be an issue. Still can't use ZRT in MD, NY, or CA due to State regs, but they're good with the Federales.

The issue is not about the testing itself, the issue is who does the interpretation of the results. In ZRT's case it's me (or would be if I didn't live in MD), in 23andMe's case they apparently have crossed some sorta legal line. I don't think ZRT is worried one wit about this outcome. They know where that line is and they stay far away from it.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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28-11-2013, 04:48 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
@GirlyMan, I don't disagree with anything you wrote. BUT, consider this....

Other countries will roll out the red carpet and offer all sorts of incentives to get 23andme to relocate there, from tax breaks, to visas for engineers.

In the US, after pouring millions of dollars into it, and likely slaving day and night to build the business, the government pulls the rug out from underneath her and sends a cease and desist.

Even if Anne doesn't relocate the operation, what message does this send to the next guy whose got some great, cutting edge idea and wants to roll the dice and risk it all starting a business, and is trying to decide in what country to setup shop?

Americans complain and complain about how "unpatriotic" these corporations are for continuously shifting their operations to more business-friendly climates. Americans complain about the estimated $20 TRILLION that has left the US and is now offshore (which is $200,000 per household of wealth that's gone). Yet, these same Americans are the ones with clubs in hand driving them out of the country. I don't get it. How can you tell someone "you're not welcome in this country, and if you stay here we'll beat you over the head", and then after the guy leaves, "What a traitor, just up and leaving the country like that!"... dumb, dumb, dumb
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