FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
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28-11-2013, 05:08 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
I gather their interest has been sparked by complaints, eg:
http://io9.com/my-deadly-genetic-disease...1471447884

If you're going to tell someone they have a deadly genetic disease that now knowing about they must disclose to their HMOs, etc... you might want to be sure.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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28-11-2013, 05:23 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 05:08 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I gather their interest has been sparked by complaints, eg:
http://io9.com/my-deadly-genetic-disease...1471447884

If you're going to tell someone they have a deadly genetic disease that now knowing about they must disclose to their HMOs, etc... you might want to be sure.

Interesting. If they are too specific they risk false positives/negatives from an immature algorithm.

If they are too vague, the data is impotent and the algorithms will evolve too slow.

I choose specifics.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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28-11-2013, 05:40 PM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2013 05:43 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 04:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  @GirlyMan, I don't disagree with anything you wrote. BUT, consider this....

Other countries will roll out the red carpet and offer all sorts of incentives to get 23andme to relocate there, from tax breaks, to visas for engineers.

In the US, after pouring millions of dollars into it, and likely slaving day and night to build the business, the government pulls the rug out from underneath her and sends a cease and desist.

Even if Anne doesn't relocate the operation, what message does this send to the next guy whose got some great, cutting edge idea and wants to roll the dice and risk it all starting a business, and is trying to decide in what country to setup shop?

Americans complain and complain about how "unpatriotic" these corporations are for continuously shifting their operations to more business-friendly climates. Americans complain about the estimated $20 TRILLION that has left the US and is now offshore (which is $200,000 per household of wealth that's gone). Yet, these same Americans are the ones with clubs in hand driving them out of the country. I don't get it. How can you tell someone "you're not welcome in this country, and if you stay here we'll beat you over the head", and then after the guy leaves, "What a traitor, just up and leaving the country like that!"... dumb, dumb, dumb

The fuck you give a shit about America, Frank. You already relocated to Hong Kong. So suck my little raisenette balls bitch and stop commenting on the USA. You ain't no longer a participant. Suck my balls, Frank, suck my sweaty balls Big Grin

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28-11-2013, 07:05 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 11:35 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 11:02 AM)sporehux Wrote:  There is no link to a financial motive, no link to "strengthened incentive" .
To jump to these conclusions you must have such an aversion to Obamacare that its affecting your rational logic, or just “the implausible visions of a lunatic fringe.”

Really? If it's irrational then surely you can answer 4 basic questions. If you run from the questions, that will indicate who is being irrational.

1. If 23andme gave me bad information and I rushed out and got some unnecessary tests, why is this "bad" when economists keep telling us we should spend more?

2. Before Obamacare, when my Blue Cross health insurance only covered medical emergencies, who paid for any unnecessary tests I ordered? Did I bear them alone, or did the public (ie voters)?

3. Now that Obamacare passed and I am forced against my will to buy a "comprehensive" health plan, who ultimately pays for my unnecessary tests?

4. Do you acknowledge that the "risk" which the FDA has presented is that people might get unnecessary tests?
1:irrelevant
2:irrelevant
3:irrelevant
4irrelevant

FDA are just doing their public care responsibility in the normal beaurocratic ham fisted way.
No conspiracies here ; move along.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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28-11-2013, 08:03 PM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2013 08:13 PM by frankksj.)
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 05:08 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I gather their interest has been sparked by complaints, eg:
http://io9.com/my-deadly-genetic-disease...1471447884

If you're going to tell someone they have a deadly genetic disease that now knowing about they must disclose to their HMOs, etc... you might want to be sure.

I love that article because it proves my point exactly with the pitfalls of liberals social engineering. The article's basic premise is that because some people have psychological problems and cannot handle science and facts, THEREFORE, they must be violently banned for EVERYBODY, even if that means people who ARE smart enough to handle the facts will end up dying as a result. So, if statistically, say, Asian women are more likely to develop skin cancer, anybody who reports this useful information should be thrown in jail because some stupid hypochondriac Asian women won't be able to handle the truth and will panic. Therefore, smart Asian women who would use this knowledge and make a lifestyle choice, like wearing sunscreen, will not be able to get the information, and may die, but it's necessary to prevent the stupid people from hurting themselves. It's the typical liberal elitism that they know better what's best for us and need to save us from ourselves.

See the author discloses that the sub-title of the article, “the time 23andme claimed to have diagnosed him with a deadly disease” is a total lie. He clarifies: “I am very much aware of the fact that 23andme doesn't claim to make any diagnoses. My story serves to illustrate the psychological effects that a health report can nevertheless have...” So, in other words, 23andme just presented the data it had and it left it up to him to decide. But rather than doing the smart thing and just taking this information with a grain of salt and using it improve his lifestyle choices, HE had a psychological problem and was a hypochondriac and couldn't handle the data. Therefore, the author argues, 23andme should be shut down so that people like myself who CAN handle the data, and who may use the data to save our lives, will no longer be able to get it.

Thank you for that article because that so well describes the liberal position.
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28-11-2013, 08:07 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 07:05 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 11:35 AM)frankksj Wrote:  Really? If it's irrational then surely you can answer 4 basic questions. If you run from the questions, that will indicate who is being irrational.

1. If 23andme gave me bad information and I rushed out and got some unnecessary tests, why is this "bad" when economists keep telling us we should spend more?

2. Before Obamacare, when my Blue Cross health insurance only covered medical emergencies, who paid for any unnecessary tests I ordered? Did I bear them alone, or did the public (ie voters)?

3. Now that Obamacare passed and I am forced against my will to buy a "comprehensive" health plan, who ultimately pays for my unnecessary tests?

4. Do you acknowledge that the "risk" which the FDA has presented is that people might get unnecessary tests?
1:irrelevant
2:irrelevant
3:irrelevant
4irrelevant

FDA are just doing their public care responsibility in the normal beaurocratic ham fisted way.
No conspiracies here ; move along.

If it was irrelevant, you'd have no problems answering it. If I asked "What color is the white house?" you'd say "White, now how is that relevant?" But since you refuse to answer the questions, that means they ARE relevant and you just don't want to accept the obvious which are:

1. The only reason it's bad to spend money on medical tests is because they're paid for collectively through insurance, rather than individually.

2. Before Obamacare, people like myself who understand the purpose and value of insurance and used it properly, would pay for these tests, even if they're unnecessary, ourselves, it wouldn't hurt anybody, and would only help the economy.

3. Now that Obamacare has passed, I'm forced to buy a comprehensive medical plan which means EVERYBODY ends up paying for my unnecessary tests.

Those are the real, honest answers you're running from because they ARE relevant, and because the answers proves that collectivizing medical, like Obamacare does, is the reason why unnecessary tests have become a public issue. THAT'S VERY RELEVANT. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's simply a fact.
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28-11-2013, 08:13 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 05:40 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The fuck you give a shit about America, Frank. You already relocated to Hong Kong. So suck my little raisenette balls bitch and stop commenting on the USA. You ain't no longer a participant. Suck my balls, Frank, suck my sweaty balls Big Grin

Thanks for so eloquently proving my point. Smile As I posted in the 'patent' thread, I used to have a business in the US that was doing ok and providing jobs and helping the economy, BUT, even though I did nothing wrong, hurt nobody, and didn't copy anything or any ideas from anybody, I ended up getting embroiled in the ridiculous US legal system and was, therefore, driven out of the country by pitchfork-wielding liberal social engineers. Just like you guys are shutting down 23andme, and lots of other startups. And then, after we're forced out of our homeland, forced to learn a new language and relocate to another culture, you guys, the same ones who threw us out, are hostile to us, calling us names like "traitor" and telling us to suck your sweaty balls, all the while complaining that the jobs are gone and the economy is in the shitter.

And when I point out WHY that's happening, what you guys have done to cause it, and how to turn things around, rather than even considering anything I said with an open-mind, you just attack me.
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28-11-2013, 08:43 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 08:07 PM)frankksj Wrote:  If it was irrelevant, you'd have no problems answering it. If I asked "What color is the white house?" you'd say "White, now how is that relevant?" But since you refuse to answer the questions, that means they ARE relevant and you just don't want to accept the obvious which are:

When the government makes a decision that upsets people, its ok to have a few thousand conspiracies as to why it was done, that's our right.

But to pick one conspiracy and then say all your suppositions for concluding that conspiracy are valid and deserving of weight is nonsensical.

You are quite mad, not that's a bad thing, I go off half cocked on topics allot.

But to dogmatically stick to a batshit hypothesis with misshapen jigsaw pieces of evidence smooshed together under the boot of ignorance is beyond my tolerance .

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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28-11-2013, 09:26 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 08:43 PM)sporehux Wrote:  But to pick one conspiracy and then say all your suppositions for concluding that conspiracy are valid and deserving of weight is nonsensical....
But to dogmatically stick to a batshit hypothesis with misshapen jigsaw pieces of evidence smooshed together under the boot of ignorance is beyond my tolerance .

If my post is anything but factual, then why do you need to fabricate strawman arguments? The title to the thread has a ? in it, meaning it's not a statement, it's asking people to think. And in my posts I have explained that by collectivizing medical care, like Obamacare does, then when one person gets unnecessary procedures the cost is born by voters, many of whom are already skeptical of Obamacare and fear it will raise their premiums. Therefore, the administration has an extra incentive to make sure people don't get unnecessary procedures because it could be a contributing factor to the 2014 elections, and this could have influenced the FDA's actions.

That's what I said. It's sound, rational, logical, coherent, and, frankly, factual. There's nothing in there that's even controversial. You just don't like the implications, so you fabricate this strawman that I'm spouting out batshit conspiracy theories, when I'm not.

Notice that when I respond to you, I quote your words verbatim and respond directly to them. I dare you, double dare you, to copy/paste verbatim ANYTHING I said in this thread that is factually inaccurate, or anywhere that I said this one issue was what drove the FDA's decision. I'm waiting....
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28-11-2013, 09:43 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 05:08 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I gather their interest has been sparked by complaints, eg:
http://io9.com/my-deadly-genetic-disease...1471447884

After re-reading that article top-to-bottom, which is supposed to be a scathing condemnation, even in this case 23andme may have saved a child's life. See 23andme identified that the author had a certain mutation which introduces a high probability of passing on a deadly disease to his offspring if his wife has the same mutation. Now, armed with this information, before he has kids, his wife can get tested for the same mutation and, if she too is a carrier, meaning there is a very high likelihood their child would have the disease, they may make a decision to use a donated sperm or egg instead to prevent inflicting his children with such pain and suffering.

Yes, there was a glitch that gave him some sleeplessness nights, but how many sleepless nights would he have if he had to watch his son suffer and die because he unwittingly passed on the gene? Isn't it better to have the information than not? I know ignorance is bliss, but is it really up to him to decide that, because he had some sleepless nights, therefore the service needs to be shut down so that now nobody else with the same gene can prevent passing it on to their children?

IMO, it's selfish and short-sighted to shut down something that is so valuable because one hypochondriac over-reacted.
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