FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
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28-11-2013, 10:05 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 09:43 PM)frankksj Wrote:  IMO, it's selfish and short-sighted to shut down something that is so valuable because one hypochondriac over-reacted.

Well I'm glad we can agree on something Thumbsup

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29-11-2013, 07:16 PM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2013 07:51 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 08:13 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 05:40 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The fuck you give a shit about America, Frank. You already relocated to Hong Kong. So suck my little raisenette balls bitch and stop commenting on the USA. You ain't no longer a participant. Suck my balls, Frank, suck my sweaty balls Big Grin

Thanks for so eloquently proving my point. Smile

Yeah. Girly gets a little drunk sometimes and flies off the handle. ... Consider ... No, that ain't right. Girly never gets a little drunk. ... But you can still suck my sweaty balls anyway. Tongue

(28-11-2013 08:07 PM)frankksj Wrote:  If it was irrelevant, you'd have no problems answering it. If I asked "What color is the white house?" you'd say "White, now how is that relevant?" But since you refuse to answer the questions, that means they ARE relevant and you just don't want to accept the obvious which are:

1. The only reason it's bad to spend money on medical tests is because they're paid for collectively through insurance, rather than individually.

2. Before Obamacare, people like myself who understand the purpose and value of insurance and used it properly, would pay for these tests, even if they're unnecessary, ourselves, it wouldn't hurt anybody, and would only help the economy.

3. Now that Obamacare has passed, I'm forced to buy a comprehensive medical plan which means EVERYBODY ends up paying for my unnecessary tests.

And none of that has any bearing whatsoever on the FDA v. 23andMe. With or without ObamaCare this situation would still have happened. Your indictment of ObamaCare is completely irrelevant and orthogonal to this otherwise interesting and potentially watershed case.

I think if 23andMe provided only results and statistical correlations the FDA wouldn't couldn't fuck with them. If the wording in the email to the customer that Hafnof linked to was changed from "Has two mutations linked to limb-girdle muscular dystrophy. A person with two of these mutations typically has limb-girdle muscular dystrophy." to "SNP variations in rs28933693 and rs28937900tations are linked to limb-girdle muscular dystrophy." I don't think the FDA could do shit. But it's obviously much more complicated than that legally or the FDA and 23andMe would've already worked out their differences.

Why this is potentially watershed is that it gets at what it means to interpret medical lab results. When Girly gets a lab result from Quest saying my testosterone at 210 ng/dl is "low", they don't mention hypogonadism. "Just the facts, ma'am." That's all. Hell they don't even tell me that "low" means my levels are more than 2 standard deviations below the mean. My Doc has to diagnose hypogonadism. Or Girly himherself. What is potentially watershed about this case is what medical information can be provided along with the naked lab results without constituting, or even being misinterpreted as, a diagnosis. That is a very interesting question. But it has absolutely nothing to do with ObamaCare and your effort to link them is worse than disingenuous, it's fucking malicious and distractive.

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29-11-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(29-11-2013 07:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  But it has absolutely nothing to do with ObamaCare and your effort to link them is worse than disingenuous, it's fucking malicious and distractive.

I previously acknowledged the FDA's had a beef with 23andme for quite a while. BUT, the fact is that when individuals pay for unnecessary diagnostic tests themselves out of pocket, the harm to others (society) is contained, whereas when you collectivize medical care, so that everybody puts their money in a shared pool which is used to pay for everyone's expenses including these unnecessary tests, THEN it does become a public issue because EVERYBODY is affected. If I'm a hypochondriac and order a zillion tests after a 23andme report, even people who've never heard of 23andme will have to pay slightly higher healthcare premiums to cover my unnecessary tests.

Do you seriously dispute this obvious fact? Stop saying it's irrelevant, please, just acknowledge whether it's accurate or inaccurate.
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29-11-2013, 09:15 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(29-11-2013 08:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(29-11-2013 07:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  But it has absolutely nothing to do with ObamaCare and your effort to link them is worse than disingenuous, it's fucking malicious and distractive.

I previously acknowledged the FDA's had a beef with 23andme for quite a while. BUT, the fact is that when individuals pay for unnecessary diagnostic tests themselves out of pocket, the harm to others (society) is contained, whereas when you collectivize medical care, so that everybody puts their money in a shared pool which is used to pay for everyone's expenses including these unnecessary tests, THEN it does become a public issue because EVERYBODY is affected. If I'm a hypochondriac and order a zillion tests after a 23andme report, even people who've never heard of 23andme will have to pay slightly higher healthcare premiums to cover my unnecessary tests.

Do you seriously dispute this obvious fact? Stop saying it's irrelevant, please, just acknowledge whether it's accurate or inaccurate.

[Image: HUH-WE-ENHANCE-1_zps9ae2d3c4.jpg]

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-11-2013, 09:36 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
I take that as a "yes, your statement is accurate".

Here's an article from VentureBeat with quotes from medical professionals explaining the FDA's need to shutdown 23andme. YES, it _IS_ about the cost of unnecessary tests.

Also google 'fda 23andme unnecessary tests'. Lots of links from credible sources confirm that the REAL reason for the FDA's crackdown was the costs of unnecessary tests.

And, you just "acknowledged" that my statement is accurate that the only reason these unnecessary tests are a public burden was because medical care is collectivized; if individuals paid for their own tests out of pocket, nobody would care about the cost.

So, YES, Obamacare's mandate that everybody pool their resources and pay for medical tests out of a common pot, instead of letting people continue for those tests individually, most certainly did create an incentive for the FDA to shutdown 23andme. How much of a factor, if any, it played in the FDA's decision to shutdown 23andme now, despite years of wrangling, I can't say. If the FDA would have done it anyway, I can't say. BUT, what is undeniable is that Obamacare provided an extra incentive. And what's also undeniable is that if we used health insurance for its intended purpose, to mitigate risk, unnecessary tests would be seen as a boost to gdp--not the political problem it is now.
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29-11-2013, 10:03 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(29-11-2013 09:36 PM)frankksj Wrote:  I take that as a "yes, your statement is accurate".

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As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-11-2013, 10:04 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(29-11-2013 08:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Do you seriously dispute this obvious fact? Stop saying it's irrelevant, please, just acknowledge whether it's accurate or inaccurate.

Its not accurate because its irrelevant,
I don't understand how you can keep trying to link the the banning of 23&Me with pro/con OBAMACARE motivations.

Answer this:
Romney was Prez / Obamacare was scrapped.
Would the FDA choose not to shutdown 23&ME

YES = Your a conspiracy nut job (you could be right, but your still a nutjob)
NO= Then what they hell is your point ? because I'm am confounded.
FDA and Obamacare are not linked in this matter = Congratulations welcome to reality

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29-11-2013, 10:16 PM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2013 10:23 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(29-11-2013 10:04 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(29-11-2013 08:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Do you seriously dispute this obvious fact? Stop saying it's irrelevant, please, just acknowledge whether it's accurate or inaccurate.

Its not accurate because its irrelevant,
I don't understand how you can keep trying to link the the banning of 23&Me with pro/con OBAMACARE motivations.

Answer this:
Romney was Prez / Obamacare was scrapped.
Would the FDA choose not to shutdown 23&ME

YES = Your a conspiracy nut job (you could be right, but your still a nutjob)
NO= Then what they hell is your point ? because I'm am confounded.
FDA and Obamacare are not linked in this matter = Congratulations welcome to reality

And he should suck my sweaty tiny balls. Just because he should. Come here frankie, it won't hurt ... much. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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30-11-2013, 12:01 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(29-11-2013 10:04 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Its not accurate because its irrelevant

My bad. I didn't realize I was debating a special needs kid who actually believed if something is irrelevant, it MUST be inaccurate. Here's one to make your head spin: The FDA banned 23andme because the earth is round. It's irrelevant, therefore, according to your logic, it MUST be inaccurate, and the earth is actually flat. It's so hilarious seeing how big government defenders trip all over themselves when pretending to use logic and reasoning.

(29-11-2013 10:04 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Answer this:
Romney was Prez / Obamacare was scrapped.
Would the FDA choose not to shutdown 23&ME

YES = Your a conspiracy nut job (you could be right, but your still a nutjob)
NO= Then what they hell is your point ? because I'm am confounded.
FDA and Obamacare are not linked in this matter = Congratulations welcome to reality

It speaks volumes that you think "I don't know" is not a valid answer. It's the typical liberal mindset. You assume you MUST have an answer for everything. A liberal will NEVER say "I don't know"--it doesn't even register as a valid option. This is why I say libertarians and austrian economists are the scientists of the world, because we're smart enough to realize that we DON't have the answers, and therefore need to use logic and reason to come up with the most likely solution. Liberals, however, think they know everything. "fools are always so certain, but wise men so full of doubts".

The fact which both you and GirlyMan keep running from and refuse to address is that Obamacare DID absolutely introduce an extra incentive. That's indisputable, which is why you refuse to state whether it's accurate or not. You know you can't say it's inaccurate because you'll sound stupid. So you instead say it's irrelevant and bury your head in the sand.

How much of a factor this incentive is, I don't know. Was the FDA already 99.9% certain they were going to shut down 23andme, and was this little extra incentive the 0.1% straw that broke the camel's back and tipped them over? I don't know. Were they already 100% certain no matter what? I don't know. If Romney were President and Obamacare was scrapped would that have changed anything? I don't know.

What I _DO_ know is that Obamacare introduced an extra incentive. That fact is inescapable.
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05-12-2013, 11:44 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(28-11-2013 01:25 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(28-11-2013 12:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Looks like they're open for business to me... So what exactly are you bitching about?

It's because they were served a 15 day notice to cease and desist. Wait another 10 days or so and then check back.

Just for the record, they ceased offering the tests. So, guys like this one who carried a genetic mutation that would have led to a baby with muscular dystrophy if his wife also carried the gene, no longer have the option of getting this information. They just have to play Russian roulette, and if the baby ends up with muscular dystrophy, watch their son or daughter endure a miserable, painful death. Thanks FDA for saving us from modern science!

Seriously, I do hope 23andme relocates out of the US. Americans will still be left in the dark ages playing the genetic lottery, but at least the technology and know-how won't wither on the vine and the rest of the world can use this technology to live longer, healthier, happier lives and prevent birth defects. But I don't want to hear Americans bitch about the shitty economy and brain drain and "Benedict Arnold billionaires" who flee the country; American voters empowered the FDA to drive the cutting edge talent out of the country.

PS: I previously asked if anybody is aware of ANY drugs in recent years that have made it through FDA approval which were NOT patented or available as generic. So far nobody's come up with an example. Wonder why Americans spend so much more on drugs than any other country. Consider
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