FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-12-2013, 07:45 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(07-12-2013 07:44 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Bah, humbug!

It wasn't a statement, it was a presuppositional and intentionally misleading, but provocative question.

Dodgy You mean a Lie?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2013, 07:47 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
No, I mean a presuppositional and intentionally misleading, but provocative question.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2013, 07:54 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(07-12-2013 07:47 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  No, I mean a presuppositional and intentionally misleading, but provocative question.

Dude, seriously this title has nothing to do with the facts presented. It is a lie, the ACA had nothing to do with why the FDA came down on this company. Including it in the the title just goes to further marginalize Franks already poor reputation as a knee jerk reactionary with an agenda. Trying to pretend it is anything else is disingenuous.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
07-12-2013, 08:00 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
I never said it wasn't disingenuous. It is. However, I am pedantic. In order for it to be a lie it would have to make a claim. It didn't. It asked a misleading question.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2013, 08:23 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(07-12-2013 08:00 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I never said it wasn't disingenuous. It is. However, I am pedantic. In order for it to be a lie it would have to make a claim. It didn't. It asked a misleading question.

So, DL, when did you stop beating your wife?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2013, 08:35 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
Thank you Chas and Bucky Ball and Revenant77x for proving my point. Yet again you responded and you STILL do not make even the slightest attempt to debunk the case I made that Obamacare added an incentive to shut down 23andme. That just proves how irrefutable it is that you're not even going to try your hand at a rebuttal.

So, I take Chas's “paranoid shit” insult and Bucky's “nominated for best TTA fictitious thread” and Revenant77x "it's a lie" as conceding defeat. Sore losers.

As I've explained a million times the title to this thread has a question mark in it. It asks a question, rather than making a claim. I was never claiming I knew that Obamacare was the straw that broke the camel's back and tipped the FDA to the 'shut it down' side. I only claimed it added some incentive, that it tipped the scale a little bit. Since you have conceded this point, NO, my OP was NOT a lie. It was a factually accurate statement. And the title was a relevant question since nobody can know for sure one way or the other. Yes, I made it intentionally provocative since I knew your liberals' heads would explode and you'd start spewing insults and diarrhea all over the forum, showing again how your responses are driven by emotion rather than logic.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 04:07 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(07-12-2013 08:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 08:00 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I never said it wasn't disingenuous. It is. However, I am pedantic. In order for it to be a lie it would have to make a claim. It didn't. It asked a misleading question.

So, DL, when did you stop beating your wife?

Nice try.

The equivalency would've been closer to "So, DL beats his wife?". If you had said 'DL beats his wife', that would be a lie.

Either way, I'm not that bothered. Call it what you will. We can all agree is was disingenuous at least. I see no point in continuing an argument over something as trivial as a definitional disagreement when we both agree with the same idea.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 09:16 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(07-12-2013 08:35 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Thank you Chas and Bucky Ball and Revenant77x for proving my point. Yet again you responded and you STILL do not make even the slightest attempt to debunk the case I made that Obamacare added an incentive to shut down 23andme. That just proves how irrefutable it is that you're not even going to try your hand at a rebuttal.

So, I take Chas's “paranoid shit” insult and Bucky's “nominated for best TTA fictitious thread” and Revenant77x "it's a lie" as conceding defeat. Sore losers.

As I've explained a million times the title to this thread has a question mark in it. It asks a question, rather than making a claim. I was never claiming I knew that Obamacare was the straw that broke the camel's back and tipped the FDA to the 'shut it down' side. I only claimed it added some incentive, that it tipped the scale a little bit. Since you have conceded this point, NO, my OP was NOT a lie. It was a factually accurate statement. And the title was a relevant question since nobody can know for sure one way or the other. Yes, I made it intentionally provocative since I knew your liberals' heads would explode and you'd start spewing insults and diarrhea all over the forum, showing again how your responses are driven by emotion rather than logic.

No, you lost. You lost all credibility. You make the claim, you provide the evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 10:11 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 09:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, you lost. You lost all credibility. You make the claim, you provide the evidence.

Chas, why do you embarrass yourself like this? Every time I prove something, you choose to ignore the proof and say it's a lie, I respond by asking you basic point-blank questions which you cannot possibly answer without either (a) validating my point, or (b) looking like an even bigger idiot. Do you understand a debate is like playing chess. When you're trapped and can't move, that's checkmate. You lose. You think that when you get trapped like that all you can do is say "I refuse to answer the question, therefore I win." Try that in chess. When I say 'Check', try saying 'I refuse to move, therefore I win'. So here we go again... Chas, please answer these questions. They're just yes/no, and we both know the answer is 'yes' to every one, so don't pretend like it's too much work for you to answer. Since I know your own views better than you, I can safely predict you will be trapped and will refuse to answer them, but will never admit it.

1. Before Obamacare, I had only 'catastrophic insurance' that did not cover routine care and testing. I got a 23andme DNA analyses which indicated a genetic predisposition to diabetes. In response to this, I got a bunch of preventative tests done. Do you agree that I paid for those tests myself? (hint, I have the credit card statement to prove that I did).

2. Now post Obamacare, I am required by law to buy a comprehensive plan that does cover routine care and testing. Therefore, if I did the tests today, I would have to get a doctor's order for the tests and submit the claim to my insurance company. Do you agree in this case the insurance company would pay for those tests (presuming I met my deductible)? (hint, I would use my insurance card, not my credit card)

3. If you concede the insurance company pays those tests, then do you accept that as the insurance company pays more in claims, as a general rule they also charge more in premiums? (hint, Obamacare mandates a claims:premiums ratio)

4. Is Obamacare a hot-button issue that Republicans are making a big deal out of?

5. If premiums go up, is it a reasonable assumption that Republicans will use this against the democrats in the next election?

6. In the 2014 election year, will the Democrats benefit by making sure people don't get unnecessary tests, thus keeping insurance premiums lower and not giving the Republicans fuel for the fire?

7. Do you accept that I only said Obamacare added an extra incentive for the FDA to shutdown 23andme, and NOT that the FDA shutdown 23andme solely because of Obamacare? If 'no', copy/paste please.

Ok, Chas, "Check... your turn." Go ahead and fume and rant like any trapped animal. Prove to us that no matter how trapped you are you will NEVER admit that maybe, just maybe, you might be wrong. It's so entertaining to watch the way you liberals behave in debates. Kind of like going to the zoo and poking the monkeys with a stick.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-12-2013, 11:03 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
P.S. Chas, while you're fuming over your inability to answer those questions, consider this... Collectivization of health care not only shifted the cost of those 23andme-induced tests from the individual to the voter, it also significantly INCREASED the cost. Before Obamacare, if I wanted tests in the US, I'd go to privatemdlabs where you get them cheap and without a doctor's script. However, now with a comprehensive medical plan, I can no longer order the tests myself; I have to first go see my primary care physician to get the lab work ordered. And, the doctors really have little choice because if I come to the doctor with DNA evidence that I'm susceptible to a disease and the doctor denies my request for preventative tests, then if I do get the disease, I will sue the doctor for malpractice.

The thing is that you guys never think through the consequences of your actions. You're focused on one thing only, which may be good like wanting poor people to get access to medical care, but you completely ignore all the perverse incentives, conflicts of interests, and unintended consequences which you leave behind in your wake.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: