FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
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08-12-2013, 11:11 AM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 10:11 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 09:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, you lost. You lost all credibility. You make the claim, you provide the evidence.

Chas, why do you embarrass yourself like this? Every time I prove something, you choose to ignore the proof and say it's a lie, I respond by asking you basic point-blank questions which you cannot possibly answer without either (a) validating my point, or (b) looking like an even bigger idiot. Do you understand a debate is like playing chess. When you're trapped and can't move, that's checkmate. You lose. You think that when you get trapped like that all you can do is say "I refuse to answer the question, therefore I win." Try that in chess. When I say 'Check', try saying 'I refuse to move, therefore I win'. So here we go again... Chas, please answer these questions. They're just yes/no, and we both know the answer is 'yes' to every one, so don't pretend like it's too much work for you to answer. Since I know your own views better than you, I can safely predict you will be trapped and will refuse to answer them, but will never admit it.

1. Before Obamacare, I had only 'catastrophic insurance' that did not cover routine care and testing. I got a 23andme DNA analyses which indicated a genetic predisposition to diabetes. In response to this, I got a bunch of preventative tests done. Do you agree that I paid for those tests myself? (hint, I have the credit card statement to prove that I did).

2. Now post Obamacare, I am required by law to buy a comprehensive plan that does cover routine care and testing. Therefore, if I did the tests today, I would have to get a doctor's order for the tests and submit the claim to my insurance company. Do you agree in this case the insurance company would pay for those tests (presuming I met my deductible)? (hint, I would use my insurance card, not my credit card)

3. If you concede the insurance company pays those tests, then do you accept that as the insurance company pays more in claims, as a general rule they also charge more in premiums? (hint, Obamacare mandates a claims:premiums ratio)

4. Is Obamacare a hot-button issue that Republicans are making a big deal out of?

5. If premiums go up, is it a reasonable assumption that Republicans will use this against the democrats in the next election?

6. In the 2014 election year, will the Democrats benefit by making sure people don't get unnecessary tests, thus keeping insurance premiums lower and not giving the Republicans fuel for the fire?

7. Do you accept that I only said Obamacare added an extra incentive for the FDA to shutdown 23andme, and NOT that the FDA shutdown 23andme solely because of Obamacare? If 'no', copy/paste please.

Ok, Chas, "Check... your turn." Go ahead and fume and rant like any trapped animal. Prove to us that no matter how trapped you are you will NEVER admit that maybe, just maybe, you might be wrong. It's so entertaining to watch the way you liberals behave in debates. Kind of like going to the zoo and poking the monkeys with a stick.

You continue to ignore the fact that your insurance company did this to you, not the ACA. Every policy that was in effect was grandfathered.

And, no, I do not accept your paranoid ravings about an alleged connection between 123and me and the ACA.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 11:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  And, no, I do not accept your paranoid ravings about an alleged connection between 123and me and the ACA.

As I predicted, you were trapped, unable to answer those 6 yes/no questions without validating my point or looking like an idiot. Checkmate.

Regarding whether the ACA forced the insurance companies to do this even Obama admitted that the ACA forced the companies to drop their 'catastrophic' policies, and proposed new legislation to fix that. You're beating a dead horse.

Besides, it doesn't change the bottom line anyway. Even if the insurance companies COULD grandfather existing plans, a young person just entering the health care market would only be allowed to sign up for a comprehensive plan, and thus would have to run 23andme-inspired tests through insurance. Thus, no matter how you slice it, the fact is ACA most definitely did introduce an extra incentive to shutdown 23andme.
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08-12-2013, 02:11 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 01:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 11:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  And, no, I do not accept your paranoid ravings about an alleged connection between 123and me and the ACA.

As I predicted, you were trapped, unable to answer those 6 yes/no questions without validating my point or looking like an idiot. Checkmate.

Regarding whether the ACA forced the insurance companies to do this even Obama admitted that the ACA forced the companies to drop their 'catastrophic' policies, and proposed new legislation to fix that. You're beating a dead horse.

Besides, it doesn't change the bottom line anyway. Even if the insurance companies COULD grandfather existing plans, a young person just entering the health care market would only be allowed to sign up for a comprehensive plan, and thus would have to run 23andme-inspired tests through insurance. Thus, no matter how you slice it, the fact is ACA most definitely did introduce an extra incentive to shutdown 23andme.

No checkmate, bub. You ask silly questions that have nothing to do with the argument except in your head, so I ignore them.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2013, 02:57 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 02:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  No checkmate, bub. You ask silly questions that have nothing to do with the argument except in your head, so I ignore them.

No sane person would look at those 6 questions and say they have nothing to do with the argument. Regardless, ANSWER THEM! You're trapped. You can't move. You can't simply state yes/no. Yes, that is checkmate, dude. When your stuck and can't move, it's game over. You can go on saying "I win, I win", but that just shows you live in your own fantasy world.
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08-12-2013, 03:09 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 02:57 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 02:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  No checkmate, bub. You ask silly questions that have nothing to do with the argument except in your head, so I ignore them.

No sane person would look at those 6 questions and say they have nothing to do with the argument. Regardless, ANSWER THEM! You're trapped. You can't move. You can't simply state yes/no. Yes, that is checkmate, dude. When your stuck and can't move, it's game over. You can go on saying "I win, I win", but that just shows you live in your own fantasy world.

Those questions are only of any importance in your paranoia.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 03:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  Those questions are only of any importance in your paranoia.

I'll have to save this thread to show my fellow liberals because it really is comical. I start a thread saying that Obamacare added an extra incentive to make sure people don't get unnecessary tests to prevent the premiums from going up and giving Republicans fuel for the fire. You said the claim is a lie. So all I do is change my claim into a question, and you refuse to answer claiming it's irrelevant. That's pretty funny.

So here again are the questions you just said are "irrelevant":

6. In the 2014 election year, will the Democrats benefit by making sure people don't get unnecessary tests, thus keeping insurance premiums lower and not giving the Republicans fuel for the fire?

7. Do you accept that I only said Obamacare added an extra incentive for the FDA to shutdown 23andme, and NOT that the FDA shutdown 23andme solely because of Obamacare?
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08-12-2013, 03:50 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
Chas, here's a debate tip. If somebody really asks you an irrelevant question, like "Is Paris the capital of France", you look MUCH more intelligent to answer the question, such as "Yes, now how is that relevant?". Because then I'd look like an idiot for asking the question since I can't explain the relevance. However when you refuse to answer the question, everybody knows that means the question IS relevant and you're just trapped. You're not fooling anybody.
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08-12-2013, 04:00 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 03:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 03:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  Those questions are only of any importance in your paranoia.

I'll have to save this thread to show my fellow liberals because it really is comical. I start a thread saying that Obamacare added an extra incentive to make sure people don't get unnecessary tests to prevent the premiums from going up and giving Republicans fuel for the fire. You said the claim is a lie. So all I do is change my claim into a question, and you refuse to answer claiming it's irrelevant. That's pretty funny.

So here again are the questions you just said are "irrelevant":

6. In the 2014 election year, will the Democrats benefit by making sure people don't get unnecessary tests, thus keeping insurance premiums lower and not giving the Republicans fuel for the fire?

7. Do you accept that I only said Obamacare added an extra incentive for the FDA to shutdown 23andme, and NOT that the FDA shutdown 23andme solely because of Obamacare?

Yes, those are irrelevant. They are products of a paranoid delusion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
@Chas, it's just silly that I make a claim, you say it's a lie, I change it into a question, you say it's irrelevant. I say "Paris is the capital of France". You say "That's a total lie." So I say "Is Paris the capital of France?" You say "That's an irrelevant question."

Regardless, your claim that it's only my paranoid delusion that the FDA shutdown 23andme to prevent unnecessary tests is actually not even controversial. That bastion of libertarian conspiracy theories, the Associated Press confirmed my theory that the problem is 23andme may "cause customers to seek unnecessary or ineffective medical care." Venture Beat said the same thing, and the Wall Street Journal also said it was about "unnecessary health procedures". And drugs.com said it "could lead women to undergo unnecessary screening, chemotherapy and surgery." And The Boston Globe also said it was to prevent "unnecessary or ineffective medical care."
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08-12-2013, 04:38 PM
RE: FDA bans preventative medicine to hide the cost of Obamacare?
(08-12-2013 04:33 PM)frankksj Wrote:  @Chas, it's just silly that I make a claim, you say it's a lie, I change it into a question, you say it's irrelevant. I say "Paris is the capital of France". You say "That's a total lie." So I say "Is Paris the capital of France?" You say "That's an irrelevant question."

Regardless, your claim that it's only my paranoid delusion that the FDA shutdown 23andme to prevent unnecessary tests is actually not even controversial. That bastion of libertarian conspiracy theories, the Associated Press confirmed my theory that the problem is 23andme may "cause customers to seek unnecessary or ineffective medical care." Venture Beat said the same thing, and the Wall Street Journal also said it was about "unnecessary health procedures". And drugs.com said it "could lead women to undergo unnecessary screening, chemotherapy and surgery." And The Boston Globe also said it was to prevent "unnecessary or ineffective medical care."

You're seriously going to compare your convoluted and paranoid questions to statements of fact?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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