Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
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31-12-2012, 11:29 AM
RE: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
(31-12-2012 10:15 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(31-12-2012 09:59 AM)Impulse Wrote:  I don't remember listening to that one, but I thought I had listened to them all. I'm going to have to check into that.

But, OMG I just went to that guy's website: http://www.proofthatgodexists.org

I went through his "8 steps to the logical proof of God's existence" out of curiosity. First, I detoured from the path he wanted me to take twice which already nullified his so-called "proof". But then I followed his desired path just to see how it would conclude. This was it:

"The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything." (In all fairness, he gives more details after that, but they don't change anything.)

To which I can only say: Laugh out load
That website has got to be one of the most laughable attempts at proving the existence of god (which god anyway? and who is he to say that there aren't multiple gods? Wink) I've ever seen. The last part was especially amusing:

"Please examine the real reason why you are running from God. It is my prayer that God will open your eyes and change your heart so that you may be saved from your sin, embraced by His forgiving love, and come to know the peace which passes all understanding."
Agreed. Countless philosophy books have been written attempting to determine whether there is a god. Each has required pages upon pages to at least try to avoid logical fallacies, but this guy thinks it can be done in 8 quick points. Rolleyes

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must get back on pace with my running from God... Laugh out load

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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02-01-2013, 06:36 AM
RE: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
(31-12-2012 11:29 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Countless philosophy books have been written attempting to determine whether there is a god. Each has required pages upon pages to at least try to avoid logical fallacies...

Do you happen to know the title of these books? I'm sure it's a heavy read, but I'm still interested..

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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02-01-2013, 09:39 AM
AW: RE: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
(02-01-2013 06:36 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(31-12-2012 11:29 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Countless philosophy books have been written attempting to determine whether there is a god. Each has required pages upon pages to at least try to avoid logical fallacies...

Do you happen to know the title of these books? I'm sure it's a heavy read, but I'm still interested..
William Lane Craig's book "Reasonable Faith" is an example, though I wouldn't call it a heavy read. Consider

Thomas Aquinas has also written extensively on this topic.

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02-01-2013, 10:30 AM
RE: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
I saw that video, as well as another one with this apologist on it. Nothing he said was even remotely convincing. He seemed like the perfect "snake oil salesman" expecting his listener to just "believe what he is saying", so he can give you "the remedy". It was a complete waste of time for Seth, I'm sure. . . unless it was Seth's plan to show "just how indoctrinated and close minded some of these apologists really are".
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02-01-2013, 12:49 PM
RE: AW: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
(02-01-2013 09:39 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(02-01-2013 06:36 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Do you happen to know the title of these books? I'm sure it's a heavy read, but I'm still interested..
William Lane Craig's book "Reasonable Faith" is an example, though I wouldn't call it a heavy read. Consider

Thomas Aquinas has also written extensively on this topic.
Oh, I thought the books would be from a non-biased source. Dodgy
Aren't there any secular philosophers that discuss the existence of God?

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

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02-01-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
(02-01-2013 06:36 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(31-12-2012 11:29 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Countless philosophy books have been written attempting to determine whether there is a god. Each has required pages upon pages to at least try to avoid logical fallacies...

Do you happen to know the title of these books? I'm sure it's a heavy read, but I'm still interested..
I read a few in my college days, but unfortunately that was too many years ago now and I only remember the authors.

These authors argued for the existence of god:
Plato
Aristotle
Descartes
Saint Thomas Aquinas (already mentioned by Vosur)
Immanuel Kant

This is the only one I remember arguing against the existence of god:
David Hume

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02-01-2013, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2013 02:22 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
(30-12-2012 07:40 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4xmw1sVhN8

There you go, Pandabby.


On to the topic, I like to admit; I Silverman'd, I facepalmed, I yelled "You've gotta be kidding me!", and I them marvelled at Seth's patience. I could not have remained so calm.
The problem with the argument of absolute morality is at what point do christians draw the line between things in the bible which they agree with and do not agree with. Either they are following god's absolute moral law, or subjectively justifying what they feel is correct and reject what they feel is incorrect.

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02-01-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: AW: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
(02-01-2013 12:49 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Oh, I thought the books would be from a non-biased source. Dodgy
Good answer. Wink

(02-01-2013 12:49 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Aren't there any secular philosophers that discuss the existence of God?
I'd recommend you to take a look at Baron d'Holbach's work "Good Sense". He's one of the most well-versed critics of religion I have ever heard and my favorite philosopher. For the sake of convenience, you could listen to the audio version of it which fstratzero uploaded on YouTube.

Here's the playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ...z1sYI-XlaJ

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02-01-2013, 02:57 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2013 03:02 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
(02-01-2013 02:18 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  The problem with the argument of absolute morality is at what point do christians draw the line between things in the bible which they agree with and do not agree with. Either they are following god's absolute moral law, or subjectively justifying what they feel is correct and reject what they feel is incorrect.
Exactly. In order to derive any moral laws or duties from the Bible, one has to interpret it subjectively. The fact that there are thousands of different Christian denominations that can't seem to agree on a whole lot of issues should give one a hint as to whether or not the morality of the Bible is absolute and binding. Clowns like WLC are a perfect example of the cherry-picking that you described. He's one of those despicable guys who argue that the Old Testament laws are no longer valid due to the establishment of the New Covenant while at the same time picking and choosing parts from the OT (for example homosexuality being an abomination) to justify their bigotry towards homosexuals.

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03-01-2013, 10:49 AM
RE: Facepalm Podcast Moment 'Proof That God Exists'
This must be "god's morality" . . . to call for the deaths of entire cultures, including children and babies, just because they were "in the way". Slavery for those who are captured in battle. Death for minor actions [working on the 'no-no' day, not being a virgin before marriage, being unruly, being a witch, etc]. "That was the Old Covenant" doesn't work because "god never changes", therefore what was "moral" to this deity at one time . . . will ALWAYS be "moral".
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