Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
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31-08-2012, 03:40 AM
Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
Paul Ryan Spoke the Truth About Obamacare

"Shortly after Paul Ryan’s speech ended last night, the left wing blogosphere and commentariat launched an attack on the vice presidential nominee for his supposed mendacity. They attacked from many angles, but the most substantial assault was on Medicare." http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/paul...51204.html

Politifact Lies About Paul Ryan and the Janesville GM Plant

"Last night Politifact Wisconsin issued one of the least factual and most skewed "fact checks" I've ever seen. Not only do they bend over backwards to provide cover to one of the most impotent promises President Obama ever made, they also simply lie about the key facts they use to label Paul Ryan's claim false. " http://mrctv.org/blog/politifact-lies-ab...e-gm-plant
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31-08-2012, 10:30 AM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
I think this is a relevant place for this question: Does it bother anyone else that there isn't an objective place to find all the resources of legislation and political statements within the government site?

Everything moves through there, why is there not documentation open to the public free of opinions?

"We Humans are capable of greatness." -Carl Sagan
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31-08-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
(31-08-2012 10:30 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  I think this is a relevant place for this question: Does it bother anyone else that there isn't an objective place to find all the resources of legislation and political statements within the government site?

Everything moves through there, why is there not documentation open to the public free of opinions?

It's called politics, and that's how it works. If you allow bullshit to get in the way, that sucks for our country, but the truth is out there if you are looking for it. I can watch the news and hear truth, and I can do a simple Google search. If you are looking for objectivity, it's there. The opinions only get into the way if you allow them. Hell, the fact checkers are actually great, I didn't even see much of a problem with them. They are even good, because with out them, you wouldn't be encouraged to look into the details, you wouldn't recognize the lies, and politicians wouldn't be held accountable or kept honest.

It usually goes like this: One side gives either a blatant lie, misquote, misrepresentation or makes a misleading claim, the other side might do the same, or in return, then someone in the media gives and opinion to what the real truth is and someone else disagrees.

If you look at these claims, specifically, there is nothing really in the way, and the same should be true for most things. Ryan was playing politics 100% with both of the claims. He wants to characterize Obama as making a promise that he didn't keep, and also cutting medicare. Neither of those are totally true, but they are not totally false claims either. They are, however, 100% bullshit. They are both playing politics and not being serious.

No matter how you look at it, as person on the left trying to make it sound good for Obama or a person on the right making it sound good for Ryan, both claims were bullshit and neither of them were being serious or addressing issues seriously. They both were being misleading and both clouding up the debate. You can rank them true to false on a scale if you want, but all you have to pay attention to is whether or not the claims represented something truthfully and seriously or are bullshit. In both cases, they weren't being truthful or serious; both were bullshit.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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31-08-2012, 12:52 PM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
Yup, everyone else lies except Faux News.

Yup...
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31-08-2012, 05:38 PM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
(31-08-2012 12:52 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Yup, everyone else lies except Faux News.

Yup...

Yeah, because someone actually made that claim....lol
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31-08-2012, 06:47 PM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
It's a pretty noticeable lie but I don't think the impact is different in terms of Obama's stimulus being ABLE to help that company. Even if it lasted until April and closed it would be hard for that money even from Obama's first month to impact that quick..

And if anywhere it is a sad failure the reps couldn't get the money to help that factory quick enough. Just like Ryan who was requesting the money for certain areas under his district, even though he says he didn't request stimulus money.. Then said it was just his assistants even though of course Ryan had to sign off on agreeing with the system. It's a failure all around but it's really an issue of too little too late to help a lot of businesses that seems quite obvious.

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
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04-09-2012, 07:16 PM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
From the Daily Caller

Why the Fact-Checkosphere is failing: So, as I understand it, this year the MSM will righteously strike back against “Post-Truth Politics” through rigorous fact-checking, followed by a manly, non-balanced, yet authoritative calling out of transgressors for the liars that they are. James Fallows and Jay Rosen, among others, have heralded this great new day. One problem, of course, is the ease–rather, the constant temptation–of presenting debatable policy issues as right/wrong fact issues, a problem emphasized by dissenter Ben Smith yesterday. Another is the way what Smith calls “the new pseudo science of fact-checks” opens up a giant sluice for the introduction of concealed bias, especially when “facts” are fed to the fact-checkers by the competing campaigns.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/02/credul...z25YOdL39C


http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/02/credul...r-20-scam/
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04-09-2012, 07:19 PM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
From Hot Air

Seems like fact checkers need to do some fact checking of their own assumptions. Paul Ryan’s speech last night included a reference to a GM plant in Janesville that closed, which Ryan used to criticize Barack Obama for failing to meet his campaign promises. A number of “fact” checkers jumped all over Ryan’s anecdote to claim that he lied about the circumstances of the plant’s closure. We’ll just take one example, from the AP’s “fact’ check:

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/30/fa...ns-speech/
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04-09-2012, 07:36 PM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
What!? You mean politicians are lieing to each other trying to grab a seat in the White house?!

Well, you have to know it stands to reason that both sides will claw at each other like wild animals to get to that seat and then enact what they really wanted to do in the first place.

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04-09-2012, 07:37 PM
RE: Fact Checking the Fact Checkers
(04-09-2012 07:16 PM)Jeff Wrote:  From the Daily Caller

Why the Fact-Checkosphere is failing

fact checking is failing because no one understands facts. Facts are treated simply as opinions...the sky is pink...

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