Fact and fiction in media stories
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09-07-2018, 05:26 PM
Fact and fiction in media stories
I think that journalists are trained not to draw any lines between fact and fiction in the stories they write. I also think that they are rewarded for telling the stories that monopoly interests want them to tell, and penalized for telling the truth. I think that also applies to the stories of all factions on all sides. I don’t think there are any trustworthy news sources any more. I’m not sure there ever have been. I see better ways of finding out about the truth of a media or faction story, if ever we really need to know, which for me is almost never.

- Jim
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09-07-2018, 05:49 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
Assume that i want to remain informed. What better ways do you suggest?

And if you want really scary take a look at the wonderful world of DeepFake. Coming soon to a social media platform near you.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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09-07-2018, 06:00 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
(09-07-2018 05:26 PM)jimhabegger Wrote:  ...
I don’t think there are any trustworthy news sources any more. I’m not sure there ever have been.
...

There is one (and to my knowledge, only one) source that has a 100% record for accuracy.
(I can't vouch for 'completeness' though. Data integrity = accurate + complete).

Wikileaks

But other sources are OK once you learn to read the biases and between the lines.

Robbypants quoted the NYT a few days ago and this jumped out when they referred to the Podesta thing... "stolen emails".

That's factually correct but why not "revealing emails" or "damaging emails" or "damning emails"?

The other trick is to know the corporate sponsor e.g. the CIA for the Washington Post.

Rolleyes

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09-07-2018, 06:02 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
(09-07-2018 05:26 PM)jimhabegger Wrote:  I think that journalists are trained not to draw any lines between fact and fiction in the stories they write. I also think that they are rewarded for telling the stories that monopoly interests want them to tell, and penalized for telling the truth. I think that also applies to the stories of all factions on all sides. I don’t think there are any trustworthy news sources any more. I’m not sure there ever have been. I see better ways of finding out about the truth of a media or faction story, if ever we really need to know, which for me is almost never.

And exactly how does such paranoia relate to your improving yourself?
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09-07-2018, 06:51 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
(09-07-2018 05:26 PM)jimhabegger Wrote:  I think that journalists are trained not to draw any lines between fact and fiction in the stories they write. I also think that they are rewarded for telling the stories that monopoly interests want them to tell, and penalized for telling the truth. I think that also applies to the stories of all factions on all sides. I don’t think there are any trustworthy news sources any more. I’m not sure there ever have been. I see better ways of finding out about the truth of a media or faction story, if ever we really need to know, which for me is almost never.

I agree with most of that except the first sentence. The actual training, as for most professions, is the pure expression of the profession unsoiled by reality. Reality is "to make a living, produce click-bait."

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09-07-2018, 06:55 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
(09-07-2018 06:02 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(09-07-2018 05:26 PM)jimhabegger Wrote:  I think that journalists are trained not to draw any lines between fact and fiction in the stories they write. I also think that they are rewarded for telling the stories that monopoly interests want them to tell, and penalized for telling the truth. I think that also applies to the stories of all factions on all sides. I don’t think there are any trustworthy news sources any more. I’m not sure there ever have been. I see better ways of finding out about the truth of a media or faction story, if ever we really need to know, which for me is almost never.

And exactly how does such paranoia relate to your improving yourself?

FAKE NEWS!!!
Why "paranoia"? Why not "proper level of skepticism, desire to find the truth though resigned to the likelihood it's not reasonably accessible to us."

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09-07-2018, 07:02 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
(09-07-2018 06:00 PM)DLJ Wrote:  But other sources are OK once you learn to read the biases and between the lines.

- and sometimes in other pages besides the front page.

- Jim
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09-07-2018, 08:14 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
(09-07-2018 05:49 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Assume that i want to remain informed. What better ways do you suggest?

It might be possible to get some real information out media stories, as DLJ said, by learning to read the biases and between the lines.

I've been able to find out what I wanted to know sometimes, with some phone calls. There might possibly be some blogs with some honest news about some things. That's all I can think of. Apart from phone calls, I haven't tried to find any other sources.

What do you do with the information you think you're getting from media stories, besides talk about it?

I do trust the fun-house mirrors of media stories to give me some ideas about some things that are happening in society in general, for example defamation campaigns against Muslims masquerading as criticism of religion, writing and speaking careers milking factional prejudices and animosities, and ever-increasing folly and oppressiveness of identity factions. I'm allowing for the possibility that what I'm seeing in media stories is a gross exaggeration of magnitude of those problems.

- Jim
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09-07-2018, 08:15 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
(09-07-2018 06:55 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  "proper level of skepticism, desire to find the truth though resigned to the likelihood it's not reasonably accessible to us."

Exactly. Thank you.

- Jim
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09-07-2018, 08:23 PM
RE: Fact and fiction in media stories
(09-07-2018 06:55 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(09-07-2018 06:02 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  And exactly how does such paranoia relate to your improving yourself?
FAKE NEWS!!!
Why "paranoia"? Why not "proper level of skepticism, desire to find the truth though resigned to the likelihood it's not reasonably accessible to us."

I will tell you why. Because selection is not the same as fabrication. To report the news, you have to select and convey stories you think will be of interest to your audience. In a commercial culture, what people will and won't pay attention to is studied very closely. It's paranoia to assume that process necessarily deliberately distorts the facts in all cases, perhaps even in most cases. The OP stated: "I think that journalists are trained not to draw any lines between fact and fiction in the stories they write." The exact opposite is the case, and stories are policed very carefully to make sure people aren't just "making stuff up." People lose their jobs in reputable news agencies for doing that. To think that all news agencies suffer from the same problems as some do is itself paranoia and "fake news."

Yes, we should apply "a proper level of skepticism" to editorializing (which is clearly marked as such by reputable news agencies). But as Patrick Moynihan once said, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
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