Faith and Fairy Tales
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08-09-2015, 06:37 AM
Faith and Fairy Tales
It occurs to me - that fairy tales are superior to religious teachings in one vital way.

While both are fictions invented to deliver a story as a means of instilling values and morals -- the fairy tale doesn't require or even expect the listener to believe it to be true. This makes the fairy tale more intellectually honest.

Perhaps if they'd preface all religious texts with "Once Upon a Time" there would be less consternation over the whole thing.

Just a suggestion.


Angel

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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08-09-2015, 08:18 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
(08-09-2015 06:37 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  It occurs to me - that fairy tales are superior to religious teachings in one vital way.

While both are fictions invented to deliver a story as a means of instilling values and morals -- the fairy tale doesn't require or even expect the listener to believe it to be true. This makes the fairy tale more intellectually honest.

Perhaps if they'd preface all religious texts with "Once Upon a Time" there would be less consternation over the whole thing.

Just a suggestion.


Angel

I agree. I think that Aesop's fables teach far more morality than the bible without the magic.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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08-09-2015, 08:34 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
(08-09-2015 08:18 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  ... Aesop's fables teach far more morality than the bible without the magic ...

Aesop's fables are moral tales; there is no morality in the bible at all. The "moral" aspiration advanced by the bible is "do god's will". As we can see with Ms. Davis in Kentucky right now, doing "god's will" is not a moral position, it's its opposite.

There is no logical progression from "do god's will" to "act morally". God's will includes such things as flying airliners into skyscrapers, and drowning your children in a lake.

I agree that prefacing bible chapters with "Once upon a time" will give pause to taking them literally, but there is no morality to be taken from them.
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08-09-2015, 08:41 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
(08-09-2015 08:34 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(08-09-2015 08:18 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  ... Aesop's fables teach far more morality than the bible without the magic ...

Aesop's fables are moral tales; there is no morality in the bible at all. The "moral" aspiration advanced by the bible is "do god's will". As we can see with Ms. Davis in Kentucky right now, doing "god's will" is not a moral position, it's its opposite.

There is no logical progression from "do god's will" to "act morally". God's will includes such things as flying airliners into skyscrapers, and drowning your children in a lake.

I agree that prefacing bible chapters with "Once upon a time" will give pause to taking them literally, but there is no morality to be taken from them.

I think there are *some* good parts in Psalms and Ecclesiastes. And of course, the church will pick out a few nuggets from the NT (while leaving out the bad parts). But generally, I agree with you the Bible is not something that should be used as a moral compass.
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08-09-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
Idk, kill those false bearing fruit trees is a good moral alegory and you can't top that.

The problem is trying to make moral messages our of God tales that already existed. Most ancient god tales were more view how sporadic and powerful our God can be than do x to be helpful stories.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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08-09-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
Aesop's tales and Confucius sayings are light years more moral than the Babble. They're simple and easy to read.

Confucius: "Forget injuries, never forget kindnesses."

Aesop: "Revenge will hurt the avenger."

This is saying pretty much the same thing in a different way. What's missing from these two morality sayings is the despicable, sadistic, mentally ill concept of original sin, fall-of-man-fucking-shit-that-is.......Christianity.

If the Jesus story had just stuck with moral stories instead of the walking on water, son of god nonsense I might pick up the Bible and read it from time to time. But as it is, I'm not going to read a book that tells me I'm a horrible, sinning person from the get-go. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life and no one else does either.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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08-09-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
(08-09-2015 09:28 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Aesop's tales and Confucius sayings are light years more moral than the Babble. They're simple and easy to read.

Confucius: "Forget injuries, never forget kindnesses."

Aesop: "Revenge will hurt the avenger."

This is saying pretty much the same thing in a different way. What's missing from these two morality sayings is the despicable, sadistic, mentally ill concept of original sin, fall-of-man-fucking-shit-that-is.......Christianity.

If the Jesus story had just stuck with moral stories instead of the walking on water, son of god nonsense I might pick up the Bible and read it from time to time. But as it is, I'm not going to read a book that tells me I'm a horrible, sinning person from the get-go. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life and no one else does either.

And most people wouldn't like half the shit Jesus did--if they quoted certain passages in church. But they don't. They stick to good Jesus. And unfortunately, most people don't read the Bible--so it is easy for churches to tell them what they want to hear.
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08-09-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
(08-09-2015 06:37 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  It occurs to me - that fairy tales are superior to religious teachings in one vital way.

While both are fictions invented to deliver a story as a means of instilling values and morals -- the fairy tale doesn't require or even expect the listener to believe it to be true. This makes the fairy tale more intellectually honest.

Perhaps if they'd preface all religious texts with "Once Upon a Time" there would be less consternation over the whole thing.

Just a suggestion.


Angel

I have a two volume work on British folktales in which the author points out a distinction between fairy tales and folktales. The former is generally understood to be fictional (just as you noted), while the latter is considered to have some kernel of truth.

I figured some would be interested in the author's actual words:

"In the Introduction ... of this work I have tried to make clear the main distinction between narrative and legendary tales. The criterion is that of the belief of the narrator. The teller of a Fairy Tale may believe in ghosts and fairies as much as a modern fiction-writer does in motor cars, but on a received and accepted background they both build a fictional narrative. Of course, the folk narrator may not believe in dragons or flying carpets or any of the apparatus of Fairy Tales. His belief or unbelief is unimportant, for he is telling a frankly fictional tale. The teller of a legend is on different ground: he is telling something that he expects to have received as a fact, generally with corroborative detail of person, time or place. Sometimes the distinction seems arbitrary and the line is hard to draw, but the main position is clear...." (A Dictionary of British Folk-Tales: Part B, pp. vii-viii)
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08-09-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
(08-09-2015 06:37 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  While both are fictions invented to deliver a story as a means of instilling values and morals -- the fairy tale doesn't require or even expect the listener to believe it to be true. This makes the fairy tale more intellectually honest.

You mean believe them to be historically true?

Many fairy tales take their morals and value seriously, presenting them as the way we ought to be, the values we ought to hold, etc.. They draw a clear line between good and evil. And inhibit a world with a clear moral arc, that they seem to suggests is the moral arc of our world as well.

And what makes you think that those religious stories written thousands of years ago required they be seen as historically accurate? Clearly the text doesn't suggest that to be the preferred method? Perhaps these texts as well, were attempt to convey a reality, that wasn't so much about literal history at all.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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08-09-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: Faith and Fairy Tales
(08-09-2015 09:28 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Aesop's tales and Confucius sayings are light years more moral than the Babble. They're simple and easy to read.

Confucius: "Forget injuries, never forget kindnesses."

Aesop: "Revenge will hurt the avenger."

This is saying pretty much the same thing in a different way. What's missing from these two morality sayings is the despicable, sadistic, mentally ill concept of original sin, fall-of-man-fucking-shit-that-is.......Christianity.

If the Jesus story had just stuck with moral stories instead of the walking on water, son of god nonsense I might pick up the Bible and read it from time to time. But as it is, I'm not going to read a book that tells me I'm a horrible, sinning person from the get-go. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life and no one else does either.

Added bonus from fairy tales: They Spell. It. Out. by giving you a one-sentence moral, in case you missed it within the story. None of this "open to interpretation" or "parables" or other such nonsense. You simply can't get it wrong.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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