Fake target account trolls transphobes
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05-05-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 11:56 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  You ASSUME my wife has trans-phobia, instead of considering she just doesn't want to pee around men. But you let trans women use that excuse.

If your wife uses the same toilets as a trans-woman chances are that she won't even realise that she is doing so. She will be sharing a room with someone with a woman's brain and therefore thinks like a woman, who is considered by everyone else to be a woman, who is infertile, and if she is post-op will have less testosterone than your wife.

If a trans woman uses the male toilets then she will outed, humiliated, and at very real risk of verbal, physical and sexual abuse. And considering the struggles that the trans woman has already had to cope with, a massive increase in risk of suicide.

But that's OK as long as your wife can feel better about a non-existent problem that she didn't know she had to worry about until she was recently told to.
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05-05-2016, 02:43 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 12:49 PM)BnW Wrote:  I'm curious if this is even a problem. Is there an actual case of a sexual assault in a public bathroom by an actual transgender person?

More GOP Lawmakers Arrested For Sexual Misconduct In Bathrooms Than Trans People
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05-05-2016, 02:45 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 01:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I know you probably didn't read the entire thread, so you probably missed it, but at no time have I said the issue is with actual transgendered people. It's the possibility that perv men will use laws or corporate policy to get into a woman's restroom/locker room without any kind of challenge or fear someone will question it.


Yet this doesn't actually happen. And nor will this focus on trans people solve any such problem were it to even to exist.

You say that you have no problem with transgendered people but you clearly do.
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05-05-2016, 02:52 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(05-05-2016 02:17 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  All that these laws do is stigmatize transgender citizens, and being in the name of trying to stop sexual predators is nothing but a weak attempt to smokescreen the real issue; that some other people find transgender people 'icky'. That's it.

Not only that but they also negatively affect cisgendered women. It enforces stricter gender codes and pushes back the progress that feminism has made. There are now examples of men following cisgendered women into toilets / bathrooms under the excuse that it was not clear that they were women. Cisgendered women are being groped and verbally abused because they are being mistaken for trans-women.

Cisgendered women are now more at risk from men because of these bathroom laws and the associated fear mongering.
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05-05-2016, 05:14 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 09:25 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-05-2016 06:16 PM)BnW Wrote:  ...
I am always dubious of any source that has an obvious agenda and interest in the outcome. And, this one goes on to quote sources like Media Matters, who is hardly neutral on the issue. That doesn't mean their statements are wrong or their "facts" inaccurate, but it certainly makes it suspect. So, if you can find a source that contradicts the assertions here, I'd be interested to see it.
...

On a side note... this surprises me. Why be dubious of a source that is transparent?

A declared non-neutrality makes life so much easier. I'm much more dubious of sources that shout about how neutral, independent or "fair and balanced" they are.

Consider

On reflection, did you intend to state that your dubiosity relates to the data rather than the sources?

My dubiosity stems from both the data and the conclusions. Sites that claim to be neutral bringers of news may not be perfect, but they are generally less likely to skew data or tell part of the story. Agenda driven sites are far more likely to do that.

For example, there is a thread in the World News forum about the OKlahoma Supreme Court ruling force oral sex is not rape if the victim was asleep. There were a number of non-news sites that put forth stories on this that made it sounds like the court was condoning this and telling frat boys everywhere to get their women drunk and take advantage of them. And, that was simply not true. The real story was that the court found the state legislator had written a crappy statute that and that, technically, no crime had been committed under the law as written. In that situation, the courts hands are tied. That is not nearly the same as condoning what this guy did. The details and nuances matter.

There are dozens, and probably hundreds, of examples like this, from both sides of the political spectrum. That's why when I see a story from a site with a clear agenda, I always try to find some kind of more neutral validation.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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05-05-2016, 05:48 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 09:30 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 08:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Why are they labeled transphobes for wanting people to use the restroom of their biological sex (when it's not the trans they're against, it's the fear it will be abused by pervs)?

If you're worried about sexual predators, don't send your kids to church; at least then the numbers would be on your side.

As far as the not taking your kids to church, I think you are preaching to the choir on that one. It is an atheist website after all. That being said, my kids will have the discomfort of being dragged off to church. Not every sunday of course. My wife is the believer in my family, so more often than not we miss church. My wife does manage to get me there once in a while though.
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05-05-2016, 05:50 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(05-05-2016 05:14 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(04-05-2016 09:25 PM)DLJ Wrote:  On a side note... this surprises me. Why be dubious of a source that is transparent?

A declared non-neutrality makes life so much easier. I'm much more dubious of sources that shout about how neutral, independent or "fair and balanced" they are.

Consider

On reflection, did you intend to state that your dubiosity relates to the data rather than the sources?

My dubiosity stems from both the data and the conclusions. Sites that claim to be neutral bringers of news may not be perfect, but they are generally less likely to skew data or tell part of the story. Agenda driven sites are far more likely to do that.

For example, there is a thread in the World News forum about the OKlahoma Supreme Court ruling force oral sex is not rape if the victim was asleep. There were a number of non-news sites that put forth stories on this that made it sounds like the court was condoning this and telling frat boys everywhere to get their women drunk and take advantage of them. And, that was simply not true. The real story was that the court found the state legislator had written a crappy statute that and that, technically, no crime had been committed under the law as written. In that situation, the courts hands are tied. That is not nearly the same as condoning what this guy did. The details and nuances matter.

There are dozens, and probably hundreds, of examples like this, from both sides of the political spectrum. That's why when I see a story from a site with a clear agenda, I always try to find some kind of more neutral validation.

Have you forgotten fox news? They scream about how fair and balanced they are, but everything is tilted one way or another. Normally backing the republican side.
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05-05-2016, 06:19 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2016 07:10 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(05-05-2016 05:50 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(05-05-2016 05:14 AM)BnW Wrote:  My dubiosity stems from both the data and the conclusions. Sites that claim to be neutral bringers of news may not be perfect, but they are generally less likely to skew data or tell part of the story. Agenda driven sites are far more likely to do that.

For example, there is a thread in the World News forum about the OKlahoma Supreme Court ruling force oral sex is not rape if the victim was asleep. There were a number of non-news sites that put forth stories on this that made it sounds like the court was condoning this and telling frat boys everywhere to get their women drunk and take advantage of them. And, that was simply not true. The real story was that the court found the state legislator had written a crappy statute that and that, technically, no crime had been committed under the law as written. In that situation, the courts hands are tied. That is not nearly the same as condoning what this guy did. The details and nuances matter.

There are dozens, and probably hundreds, of examples like this, from both sides of the political spectrum. That's why when I see a story from a site with a clear agenda, I always try to find some kind of more neutral validation.

Have you forgotten fox news? They scream about how fair and balanced they are, but everything is tilted one way or another. Normally backing the republican side.

You misunderstand their meaning of fair and balanced. The hosts and anchors at Fox News are undoubtedly mostly Republican. However, they do have many Democrats on staff as major contributors. Also, unlike CNN or MSNBC, they routinely have multiple people representing both parties being interviewed during every segment. They give everyone a chance to speak. I have seen the DNC chairwoman interviewed on Fox News almost once a day for the last year.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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05-05-2016, 07:20 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
Neither Fox nor MSNBC are in any way neutral in their broadcasts. But, with their online news links both Fox and NBC tend to act like actual professional news organizations. Their records are not spotless by any means, but they are generally better than the sites with known agendas.

I find the best sites for objective reporting are BBC and NPR but they don't cover every single thing. If I can't find it there, I'll look on ABC, CBS or NBC, maybe even CNN. They all have their warts, but they are far more credible than HuffPo, Young Turks or any of the right wing blogs.

Finding a really unbiased source is impossible and you need to make an effort to understand the truth in a story, but some sites are definitely better than others.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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05-05-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
I am worried going into public bathrooms.

I worry about filth.
I worry about stink.
I worry about people not washing their hands.

I don't worry whether someone in the next stall has stuff dangling between their legs or not. They are in a stall. We are in a lady's room. Everyone is in their own little cubicle.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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