Fake target account trolls transphobes
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04-05-2016, 01:49 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 12:49 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(04-05-2016 11:46 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  You don't get it. Or you're purposely ignoring the similarities.

A transgender "woman" wants to feel comfortable by using the restroom away from men, and be among "her" own gender or sex.

My wife wants to feel comfortable by using the restroom away from men, and be among "her" own gender or sex.

There is no difference.

But it is hypocritical. Because the transgender expects real women to be OK with using the restroom with biological men, when "she" refuses to.

I understand your argument, but I disagree. A transgender woman may have male genitals, but mentally she's a woman. It's more than just comfort. She's psychologically as much a woman as your wife and daughter and poses no more threat to them than any other woman in a public rest room (and statistically, probably even less).

I'm curious if this is even a problem. Is there an actual case of a sexual assault in a public bathroom by an actual transgender person?

I know you probably didn't read the entire thread, so you probably missed it, but at no time have I said the issue is with actual transgendered people. It's the possibility that perv men will use laws or corporate policy to get into a woman's restroom/locker room without any kind of challenge or fear someone will question it.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-05-2016, 02:00 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 01:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I know you probably didn't read the entire thread, so you probably missed it, but at no time have I said the issue is with actual transgendered people. It's the possibility that perv men will use laws or corporate policy to get into a woman's restroom/locker room without any kind of challenge or fear someone will question it.

So you think additional legislation is necessary to keep pervs out of restrooms then. What fucking backwards part of the country you live in that doesn't already have laws to prevent this? Small government my big fucking fat ass. You are a "convenient small government" advocate. When dicks are outlawed only outlaws will have dicks.

#sigh
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04-05-2016, 02:09 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 02:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-05-2016 01:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I know you probably didn't read the entire thread, so you probably missed it, but at no time have I said the issue is with actual transgendered people. It's the possibility that perv men will use laws or corporate policy to get into a woman's restroom/locker room without any kind of challenge or fear someone will question it.

So you think additional legislation is necessary to keep pervs out of restrooms then. What fucking backwards part of the country you live in that doesn't already have laws to prevent this? Small government my big fucking fat ass. You are a "convenient small government" advocate. When dicks are outlawed only outlaws will have dicks.

You have quite the attitude lately. You have blood coming out of your eyes. Blood coming out of your whatever.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-05-2016, 02:22 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 02:09 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(04-05-2016 02:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So you think additional legislation is necessary to keep pervs out of restrooms then. What fucking backwards part of the country you live in that doesn't already have laws to prevent this? Small government my big fucking fat ass. You are a "convenient small government" advocate. When dicks are outlawed only outlaws will have dicks.

You have quite the attitude lately. You have blood coming out of your eyes. Blood coming out of your whatever.

It ain't you man. You're no more ignorant today than you were a month ago. I just feel like pointing it out more than usual. .... I still like you though.

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04-05-2016, 06:16 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 01:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I know you probably didn't read the entire thread, so you probably missed it, but at no time have I said the issue is with actual transgendered people. It's the possibility that perv men will use laws or corporate policy to get into a woman's restroom/locker room without any kind of challenge or fear someone will question it.

I'm not a mind reader so perhaps that is what you meant all along, but that is definitely not what you said to start this off. Sex reassignment surgery is not cheap and I strongly suspect that most transexuals have not been medically altered. Hormones are only going to change so much.

I still question why this is really a problem. I did a google search and the best I could find on the topic was this article from Huff Post Queer Voices. I am always dubious of any source that has an obvious agenda and interest in the outcome. And, this one goes on to quote sources like Media Matters, who is hardly neutral on the issue. That doesn't mean their statements are wrong or their "facts" inaccurate, but it certainly makes it suspect. So, if you can find a source that contradicts the assertions here, I'd be interested to see it.

I suspect you will not, though. I would be very surprised to find out that transsexuals are using bathrooms for anything other than going to the bathroom. And, we already have laws to protect people from being harassed or assaulted in bathrooms. These laws were not put in place to protect, they were put in place to discriminate.

All that said, I do agree with you that there is something inherently uncomfortable about having the equivalent of someone in drag using the bathroom with you. But, for years there were whites who were uncomfortable using the same bathrooms as people of color. Our personal discomforts and embarrassments should never be justification for discrimination or making people feel less-than. So, absent some actual evidence this creates an additional threat to people, I think the rest of us have to suck it up and let transgender people use the bathroom for the sex they identify with. I'm not always going to be happy about it either, but that's really my problem and I'll have to get over it.

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04-05-2016, 09:25 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 06:16 PM)BnW Wrote:  ...
I am always dubious of any source that has an obvious agenda and interest in the outcome. And, this one goes on to quote sources like Media Matters, who is hardly neutral on the issue. That doesn't mean their statements are wrong or their "facts" inaccurate, but it certainly makes it suspect. So, if you can find a source that contradicts the assertions here, I'd be interested to see it.
...

On a side note... this surprises me. Why be dubious of a source that is transparent?

A declared non-neutrality makes life so much easier. I'm much more dubious of sources that shout about how neutral, independent or "fair and balanced" they are.

Consider

On reflection, did you intend to state that your dubiosity relates to the data rather than the sources?

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04-05-2016, 09:30 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(02-05-2016 08:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Why are they labeled transphobes for wanting people to use the restroom of their biological sex (when it's not the trans they're against, it's the fear it will be abused by pervs)?

Sexual assault laws are already unisex.

Nobody is going to go through pain and suffering to undergo sex realignment surgery, none of which is covered by insurance and easily represents the largest decision of that person's life, just so that they can cop a feel in a bathroom. Being a transsexual doesn't make sexual assault laws no longer apply, for fuck's sake...

If you're worried about sexual predators, don't send your kids to church; at least then the numbers would be on your side.

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04-05-2016, 10:20 PM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
The problem with saying transsexuals sharing a woman bathrooms is mostly how can you tell? Maybe a crossdresser, but a full blown transsexual I don't think so. To the point of me asking why make it? Trans people tend to look like they gender the switched to. Why is this even a problem? For years trans people have used the bathroom of the gender they identify as and there isn't many "Woman being peeped at by transexuals in the bathroom." I think this is just conservatives being stupid again.

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05-05-2016, 02:17 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2016 02:34 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
(04-05-2016 01:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I know you probably didn't read the entire thread, so you probably missed it, but at no time have I said the issue is with actual transgendered people. It's the possibility that perv men will use laws or corporate policy to get into a woman's restroom/locker room without any kind of challenge or fear someone will question it.


Okay, lets explore that. I'm going to give you the largest benefit of the doubt, and in doing so, deny that same benefit to the entire transgender community. That's not fair, but let's roll with it.

What currently stops perverts from doing this? Well, it's already illegal. Sexual assault laws are already unisex. But if someone really wanted into a particular bathroom, what now currently stops them? Nothing. What would these supposedly anti-perv bathrooms laws do to stop an actual perv? Absolutely fucking nothing. Unless you want to station a police officer at the entrance of every bathroom and require them to do a dick check before entrance, there's is nothing you can do. Is that what you want? Someone to check your junk before you can use the bathroom, to make sure you're not a two-timing pervert?

These laws would do nothing to stop perverts. There's nothing currently stopping a pervert from entering or hiding inside a bathroom. If they actually do anything, it's still sexual assault, and that's already illegal.

All that these laws do is stigmatize transgender citizens, and being in the name of trying to stop sexual predators is nothing but a weak attempt to smokescreen the real issue; that some other people find transgender people 'icky'. That's it. Not only that, but these laws also (intentionally or not) conflate being transgender with being a sexual predator.

Someone could go through the pain, suffering, financial burden, and increased personal risk of sex realignment surgery, all to gain better incognito access to bathrooms and lockers. They could, but nobody is going to, because sexual assault is still illegal. Now, without doing all of that, a sexual predator could still get into these locations, and if they assault someone it's still illegal. If you're going to do it anyways, just being a predator without wasting the extra effort is the simpler and easier option. These laws aren't going to stop actual predators, any more so than current laws already do or do not. Nobody that isn't transgender will fake being one to gain access, precisely because of the risk and stigmatization that already exists against transgender.


If you truly value small government and personal freedom, there's no way for you to support this blatantly discriminatory bullshit.

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05-05-2016, 02:37 AM
RE: Fake target account trolls transphobes
Firstly, I'm totally in favour of unisex/multi-gender toilets; I'm not sure why we stick so rigidly to the "M" and "F" designations for public toilets in here in Australia. Frankly, I don't give a damn about the gender/sexuality of the person using the stall next to me. Let's face it—we're all of us in there for one reason alone; carrying out a purely natural and necessary human bodily function.

And I see changing rooms in exactly the same light; whomever is trying on clothes in the next booth worries me not in the least. Why should it?

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