Fallacies
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25-09-2017, 05:07 AM
RE: Fallacies
(24-09-2017 02:42 PM)f stop Wrote:  A theist declares that there is no such thing as a fallacy. Fallacies are "simply in your head, instruments of Satan to lead you astray." Martin Luther said the same thing about logic.
Just say, for arguments sake "What if...and I'm just throwing this out there, but WHAT IF, you're wrong?"

One thing I find hard work with some hardcore theists is that they go in with the mindset "I AM CORRECT", so if you try and argue with them, it isn't going to work. They have all this crazy shit like, "you assume this" or "what does this word even mean" bullshit, that if they even thought about what they've just said, they'd realise if just pure sputum coming out of their mouths that means nothing.

Its essentially a conversation version of the filibuster, they just talk and talk until you've given up trying to argue the point, to which they take it as a victory.

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25-09-2017, 05:11 AM
RE: Fallacies
(25-09-2017 05:07 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(24-09-2017 02:42 PM)f stop Wrote:  A theist declares that there is no such thing as a fallacy. Fallacies are "simply in your head, instruments of Satan to lead you astray." Martin Luther said the same thing about logic.
Just say, for arguments sake "What if...and I'm just throwing this out there, but WHAT IF, you're wrong?"

One thing I find hard work with some hardcore theists is that they go in with the mindset "I AM CORRECT", so if you try and argue with them, it isn't going to work. They have all this crazy shit like, "you assume this" or "what does this word even mean" bullshit, that if they even thought about what they've just said, they'd realise if just pure sputum coming out of their mouths that means nothing.

Its essentially a conversation version of the filibuster, they just talk and talk until you've given up trying to argue the point, to which they take it as a victory.

> Indeed. This is why I won't invite Jehovah's Witnesses into my home anymore. Consider
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25-09-2017, 05:17 AM
RE: Fallacies
(25-09-2017 05:11 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 05:07 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Just say, for arguments sake "What if...and I'm just throwing this out there, but WHAT IF, you're wrong?"

One thing I find hard work with some hardcore theists is that they go in with the mindset "I AM CORRECT", so if you try and argue with them, it isn't going to work. They have all this crazy shit like, "you assume this" or "what does this word even mean" bullshit, that if they even thought about what they've just said, they'd realise if just pure sputum coming out of their mouths that means nothing.

Its essentially a conversation version of the filibuster, they just talk and talk until you've given up trying to argue the point, to which they take it as a victory.

> Indeed. This is why I won't invite Jehovah's Witnesses into my home anymore. Consider
Maybe it's one for another thread, but has anybody here (or generally that we know of) convinced a theist that they are wrong? or at least to start questioning things?

I can't think of a single time I've ever had a "productive" discussion with a theist.

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25-09-2017, 05:21 AM
RE: Fallacies
(25-09-2017 05:17 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 05:11 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > Indeed. This is why I won't invite Jehovah's Witnesses into my home anymore. Consider
Maybe it's one for another thread, but has anybody here (or generally that we know of) convinced a theist that they are wrong? or at least to start questioning things?

I can't think of a single time I've ever had a "productive" discussion with a theist.

> I can't say that I've ever converted anyone, but I advised one of my nephews, a Roman Catholic, to investigate the Bible with an open mind and to do some comparative religious study. He ended up becoming an atheist.
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25-09-2017, 05:23 AM
RE: Fallacies
(25-09-2017 05:21 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 05:17 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Maybe it's one for another thread, but has anybody here (or generally that we know of) convinced a theist that they are wrong? or at least to start questioning things?

I can't think of a single time I've ever had a "productive" discussion with a theist.

> I can't say that I've ever converted anyone, but I advised one of my nephews, a Roman Catholic, to investigate the Bible with an open mind and to do some comparative religious study. He ended up becoming an atheist.
I suppose that's the difference really. Theists will try to "convert" anybody not on their side, whilst Atheists say "look mate, do whatever you like....but actually look into it a bit".

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25-09-2017, 05:58 AM
RE: Fallacies
(24-09-2017 02:42 PM)f stop Wrote:  A theist comes up with an argument that is so utterly stupid (i.e., incomprehensible) that I don't know how the refute it. I mean it's too silly for words but if I tell him that then I commit the fallacy of Appeal to the Stone. What to do?

Tell him that the feeling of certainty doesn't necessarily correlate with accuracy, otherwise crazy people would always be right.
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25-09-2017, 07:53 AM
RE: Fallacies
I once had a couple of young Mormons approach me in the street and try to convert me - I'm sure you know the type.

Their statements and claims were the usual fallacious nonsense and pointing out the illogicality of their positions was quite fun. Our discussion reached a successful conclusion (for me) when we got to this .........and here I'm paraphrasing:

Me - So why are you Mormons?
Them - Because our parents raised us well
Me - So why did your parents raise you as Mormons?
Them - Because they are Mormons
Me - So what if you had been born in Saudi Arabia to muslim parents?
Them - Errrrr
Me - Would you be Mormons or muslims?
Them - We have to go now...............

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Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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25-09-2017, 08:43 AM
RE: Fallacies
(25-09-2017 07:53 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  I once had a couple of young Mormons approach me in the street and try to convert me - I'm sure you know the type.

Their statements and claims were the usual fallacious nonsense and pointing out the illogicality of their positions was quite fun. Our discussion reached a successful conclusion (for me) when we got to this .........and here I'm paraphrasing:

Me - So why are you Mormons?
Them - Because our parents raised us well
Me - So why did your parents raise you as Mormons?
Them - Because they are Mormons
Me - So what if you had been born in Saudi Arabia to muslim parents?
Them - Errrrr
Me - Would you be Mormons or muslims?
Them - We have to go now...............

I think the Mormons are taught to cut and run whenever anyone questions their view. The following happened to my wife:

Mormon: During the dark ages God was angry with mankind and withdrew his blessing.

Wife: But during the dark ages in Europe China was experiencing a golden age. Why didn't God withdraw his blessing from China?

Mormon: Well, if you're going to be close-minded we'll just go.

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25-09-2017, 09:42 AM
RE: Fallacies
This is an example of a general problem I've seen before:

1) Make up magical story A to "explain" reality

2) Notice that there are glaring inconsistencies between the implications of the story and what we can observe from reality

3) Make up magical story B to explain the differences

Satan often ends up being story B.

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25-09-2017, 10:12 AM
RE: Fallacies
Surely an argument to be made is:

"Well, do you believe in zeus? No? Well how is that any different to your religion? How is your god correct but that one is wrong?"

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