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14-01-2016, 07:18 AM
RE: Fallout Boner
(14-01-2016 05:43 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 07:47 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  Hardly ever agree with Earmuffs but I have to with this. New Vegas is the worst Fallout game ever. Fallout Shelter is better than New Vegas.

Oh yes... Fallout New Vegas sucks... You know, the game that:

-> Fixed the piece of shit repair system that almost made FO3 unbearable to play; ruining any ideas you have of using unique weapons or armor (Wolfgang can only fix them to 80 %, and you have to pay the fucker too). You also don't have to carry with you 5 Chinese Assualt Rifles to keep your first Rifle in peak condition.

-> Had HUNDREDS of weapons and mods, an extensive selection of ammo and actual playstyles based around the type of armor you use instead of the only ones you would bother with in Fallout 3; the T-51b or the Chinese Glitch Stealth Armor.

-> An improved relation system with dozens of factions, which all play a role in the final battle at Hoover Dam.

-> Every follower has interesting quests attached to them that help you actually care about the side characters in the story. And most of them also tie in to the battle of the Dam.

-> Veronica, Cass and of course the most OP follower in Fallout: (that isn't invincible due to a glitch) ED-I.

-> You can choose between several people to work with to determine the fate of New Vegas; House, The Legion, NCR and of course, yourself. Compare that to FO3, where your choice boiled down to putting a canister in a machine or not.

-> A very important one here; the game isn't nearly impossible to play without VATS. With the addition of aiming down the sights, improved accuracy for full auto fire weapons and the fact that the sniper rifles ACTUALLY. FUCKING. WORK, makes VATS a handly edge in combat, but not something you have to use all the time to hit a damn thing.

-> The game brings back characters from Fallout 1 and 2, or tells what happened to them. This is just a nice thing in itself.

->The game has four massive DLC's. Regardless if you like them or not, the game offers the same or more DLC content than Fallout 3 did. And Old World Blues is always awesome.

-> It's got hardcore mode. If you haven't tried it, you should.

-> The game actually has an ENDING. Instead of just saying "The Lone Wanderer was a dick/good guy, and he changed the wasteland" like in Fallout 3, New Vegas ties out what happened to every single major side quest you did, which you know, the orignal Fallout 1 and 2 did...


Fallout NV had three major downsides. The biggest one was that the world was far different than FO3. It a desert, not a complex captial, meaning it has less geographical content. The other two problems is that you become a god in that game within 3 hours if you know what to do, and it's got the Gamebyro engine's glitch-stamp of approval; problems which also plauged Fallout 3.

If you think NV sucks simply because it's smaller than Fallout 3, okay. I can handle a little less content in favor of genuinely better gameplay.

And let's not forget that FO4 is a lot smaller than Skyrim. Didn't bother me much.

The only two things that bugged me about NV really was the smaller map, and the whole eaten by deathclaws thing if you tried to wander toward the city before leveling... Unless that was just my luck, but it kinda seemed like that old game SkiFree where you would inevitably be devoured by a yeti. Neither of those things actually ended up taking anything away from the game though.
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14-01-2016, 07:21 AM
RE: Fallout Boner
(14-01-2016 06:59 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  Nevermind the fact that Fallout 3 got more favorable reviews, shipped more copies and won over x3 more awards. Not saying NV isn't a good game, it is in it's own right but out of the franchise it's probably the worst.

Well, you see, most critics didn't play Fallout 3 for more than 10-20 hours. That is not a good basis for a review of a game with 60 hours plus of content. And people throw awards at games more so because they have new concept or because it's popular; RAGE got tons of awards, and RAGE sucks pretty bad when take good look at it. Here's another example:
https://youtu.be/mQUVfo_kBMU?t=6m9s

On a gameplay basis, New Vegas took pretty much everything Fallout 3 did wrong and did it right, as I already explained.

And this isn't just my opinon; what I've written is a compilation of arguements made by me, Free Thought, Revenant and TheGulegon, that we've discussed on many, many occasions.

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14-01-2016, 07:25 AM
RE: Fallout Boner
(14-01-2016 07:18 AM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 05:43 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Oh yes... Fallout New Vegas sucks... You know, the game that:

-> Fixed the piece of shit repair system that almost made FO3 unbearable to play; ruining any ideas you have of using unique weapons or armor (Wolfgang can only fix them to 80 %, and you have to pay the fucker too). You also don't have to carry with you 5 Chinese Assualt Rifles to keep your first Rifle in peak condition.

-> Had HUNDREDS of weapons and mods, an extensive selection of ammo and actual playstyles based around the type of armor you use instead of the only ones you would bother with in Fallout 3; the T-51b or the Chinese Glitch Stealth Armor.

-> An improved relation system with dozens of factions, which all play a role in the final battle at Hoover Dam.

-> Every follower has interesting quests attached to them that help you actually care about the side characters in the story. And most of them also tie in to the battle of the Dam.

-> Veronica, Cass and of course the most OP follower in Fallout: (that isn't invincible due to a glitch) ED-I.

-> You can choose between several people to work with to determine the fate of New Vegas; House, The Legion, NCR and of course, yourself. Compare that to FO3, where your choice boiled down to putting a canister in a machine or not.

-> A very important one here; the game isn't nearly impossible to play without VATS. With the addition of aiming down the sights, improved accuracy for full auto fire weapons and the fact that the sniper rifles ACTUALLY. FUCKING. WORK, makes VATS a handly edge in combat, but not something you have to use all the time to hit a damn thing.

-> The game brings back characters from Fallout 1 and 2, or tells what happened to them. This is just a nice thing in itself.

->The game has four massive DLC's. Regardless if you like them or not, the game offers the same or more DLC content than Fallout 3 did. And Old World Blues is always awesome.

-> It's got hardcore mode. If you haven't tried it, you should.

-> The game actually has an ENDING. Instead of just saying "The Lone Wanderer was a dick/good guy, and he changed the wasteland" like in Fallout 3, New Vegas ties out what happened to every single major side quest you did, which you know, the orignal Fallout 1 and 2 did...


Fallout NV had three major downsides. The biggest one was that the world was far different than FO3. It a desert, not a complex captial, meaning it has less geographical content. The other two problems is that you become a god in that game within 3 hours if you know what to do, and it's got the Gamebyro engine's glitch-stamp of approval; problems which also plauged Fallout 3.

If you think NV sucks simply because it's smaller than Fallout 3, okay. I can handle a little less content in favor of genuinely better gameplay.

And let's not forget that FO4 is a lot smaller than Skyrim. Didn't bother me much.

The only two things that bugged me about NV really was the smaller map, and the whole eaten by deathclaws thing if you tried to wander toward the city before leveling... Unless that was just my luck, but it kinda seemed like that old game SkiFree where you would inevitably be devoured by a yeti. Neither of those things actually ended up taking anything away from the game though.

That was always NV's problem in comparison to Fallout 3. Fallout 3 is fucking MASSIVE. What makes Fallout 3 so big is the underground sections. I've played FO3 for hundreds of hours and I still haven't been able to visit every metro station in the game. Thankfully, Fallout 4 is a lot the same, with Downtown Boston being jampacked with unmarked locations you can enter and scavenge.

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14-01-2016, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2016 08:55 PM by Res Publica.)
RE: Fallout Boner
(13-01-2016 06:27 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 04:16 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  That's because you smoke crack.

No, it's because the dialogue in New Vegas actually belongs in a Fallout game, as opposed to the trash they stuck in 4 for whatever reason.

And I dislike the levelling system 4 added as well.

Sure 4 looks better, but in my experience I can find no real improvements over Fallout 3 (the last Bethesda-made Fallout), and most certainly none over NV (Obsidian's work) that are not graphical in nature or ripped from the pre-established modding scene.

Personally I disagree, I actually like the new dialogue. Getting to hear your character speak is great. Since playing DA:I I've found voiced dialogue to be much better. Just look at the Directorate meetings. You never could have had something like that with the old dialogue. However, I do have 2 problems with it: people walking away or being pushed away while I'm talking to them, ending (sometimes very important) conversations which pisses me off, and how you can never tell if asking a question will advance you in dialogue or not. I've been playing Mass Effect lately and (given that Bioware games seem to be Bethesda's inspiration for the new dialogue) the ME system where question are on one side (and NEVER advance you in conversation) works much better. I always want to hear everything someone has to say and I'm never sure if a question will advance the dialogue or not. It is nice that you can save during the dialogues though.

Personally I think that the new dialogue would work really well in TES, which has never had very good dialogue. I hope in TES VI they give each race and sex it's own voice, or at the very least give an Argonian PC a hissy voice and a Khajiit one that weird 3rd person thing.

I also think taking off the level cap was a good move. I hated that about New Vegas and Fallout 3. I'm also really glad that you can keep playing after you finish the game. The only problem is the game seems to be missing side quests. Skyrim had so many side quests (and those misc. quests) that you could never hope to finish them all. Fallout 4 just has those godawful Minutemen radiant quests that Preston Garvey gives, each time you return them. Apparently that whole militia you put together is totally useless.

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14-01-2016, 09:37 PM
RE: Fallout Boner
I got the game as a Christmas gift, so I haven't got THAT far into it. I'm not in a big rush to finish the main story line. I'm only level 26 - no idea how many hours I have right now. I'm still liking it a lot, loving it, but a couple of things in the game are annoying me:

The lack of crafting stations INSIDE Home Plate. I know there are some outside, but I want mine indoors without the need for load screens.
The lack of Supply Lines to Home Plate. Seriously. There is no excuse. The only place I have to pay for, and it gets none of the perks of the free places???
The building of towns. Seriously. The system to create simple structures are way to difficult to make. There are a few pre-fab options are are so-so. The custom jobs take me forever - and that's to make simple buildings. Bethesda should take a page out of The Sims if building shit is meant to be a relatively important and emphasized part of the game.
The lack of direction. Not with the story line, or where to go, or what to do. It's the "How to do", "How something works" and "What can I do" that the game is lacking in. For example, I just figured out I could use my Pipboy as a flashlight. I have no idea how to determine what the AP usage for VATS is when modding weapons, and it took me while to figure out how electricity should be used, and how to assign people to tasks. I'm still unclear on how to check who is assigned to what. I have ~15 settlers in Sanctuary. No idea how many are assigned plants. 3?5?7? It seems like there area a lot. When I initally made my character I had 0 perks, I just started assigning points to the base attributes. I had no idea how that system worked because no one bothered explaining it. Just a "here you go". That costly mistake 5 minutes into the game is still affecting my character.

With all of my gripes, I'm still loving the game. I've done stuff with the MinuteMen and a little with the Brotherhood of Steel. Haven't ran into the right people for the rest of the 'alliances' just yet. I was over level 20 before I found my first companion (excluding Dogmeat). Then I just happened to get a shitload at once. Strong, Nick, Codsworth (maybe I had him before and didn't realize), Hancock, Piper, the hot Irish fighter chick, the BoS dude.

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14-01-2016, 11:12 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2016 12:43 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Fallout Boner
(14-01-2016 08:33 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 06:27 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  No, it's because the dialogue in New Vegas actually belongs in a Fallout game, as opposed to the trash they stuck in 4 for whatever reason.

And I dislike the levelling system 4 added as well.

Sure 4 looks better, but in my experience I can find no real improvements over Fallout 3 (the last Bethesda-made Fallout), and most certainly none over NV (Obsidian's work) that are not graphical in nature or ripped from the pre-established modding scene.

Personally I disagree, I actually like the new dialogue. Getting to hear your character speak is great. Since playing DA:I I've found voiced dialogue to be much better. Just look at the Directorate meetings. You never could have had something like that with the old dialogue. However, I do have 2 problems with it: people walking away or being pushed away while I'm talking to them, ending (sometimes very important) conversations which pisses me off, and how you can never tell if asking a question will advance you in dialogue or not. I've been playing Mass Effect lately and (given that Bioware games seem to be Bethesda's inspiration for the new dialogue) the ME system where question are on one side (and NEVER advance you in conversation) works much better. I always want to hear everything someone has to say and I'm never sure if a question will advance the dialogue or not. It is nice that you can save during the dialogues though.

Personally I think that the new dialogue would work really well in TES, which has never had very good dialogue. I hope in TES VI they give each race and sex it's own voice, or at the very least give an Argonian PC a hissy voice and a Khajiit one that weird 3rd person thing.

I don't care that the dialogue is voiced, that isn't the problem I have. My biggest problem with the simplified 'Mass Effect style' dialogue is that in addition to feeling much more limiting, it is also really vague. In the last games, I knew what the character would 'say', now I don't have a way to be sure. And as you point out, the lack of an Investigate option is especially annoying given the already sparse options. ME has it for a reason. My other key problem with the dialogue will be touched on further down once the two 'problem areas' intersect.

The system just does not feel like it belongs in a Fallout game.

(14-01-2016 08:33 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  I also think taking off the level cap was a good move. I hated that about New Vegas and Fallout 3. I'm also really glad that you can keep playing after you finish the game. The only problem is the game seems to be missing side quests. Skyrim had so many side quests (and those misc. quests) that you could never hope to finish them all. Fallout 4 just has those godawful Minutemen radiant quests that Preston Garvey gives, each time you return them. Apparently that whole militia you put together is totally useless.

I can get people liking the removal of the level cap; personally, I don't really care about it at all, though I did kind of like having my perk choices need to be carefully considered, lest I waste a level.
But my beef with the levelling system in Fallout 4 has nothing to do with the cap; so forget that completely.

I liked the skill-perk system of Fallouts 1-NV; where the perks you were able to get were limited to ones which you were skilled enough to unlock, which made your levelling up choices matter a bit more, and made sense from an RP perspective of the character getting better as they grow more experienced.
The system they put in place, this faux skill-tree chart-thing they have set up is unclear and annoying because of it.
In my meaningless opinion it feels like they lost sight of its RPG roots; it feels like it has been 'simplified' for the sake of broader consumer appeal, and they failed at simplification; leaving a shambles in the place of the long-established functional system.

My bigger problem with the levelling system ties into the dialogue system; in the older Fallout titles, your skills determined your path through quite a bit of dialogue; 3 was quite limited in that, but that is why I prefer NV; because it stepped up from 3 and included more options for skill checks and more diverse ones.
In Fallout 4 however, that does not exist at all; convincing is based entirely on chance. Where in New Vegas, I required 'vocal' demonstrations of my knowledge to convince people I knew what I was doing, I now need the favour of the Random Number Gods and Charisma.

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15-01-2016, 03:20 AM
RE: Fallout Boner
(14-01-2016 11:12 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  My bigger problem with the levelling system ties into the dialogue system; in the older Fallout titles, your skills determined your path through quite a bit of dialogue; 3 was quite limited in that, but that is why I prefer NV; because it stepped up from 3 and included more options for skill checks and more diverse ones.
In Fallout 4 however, that does not exist at all; convincing is based entirely on chance. Where in New Vegas, I required 'vocal' demonstrations of my knowledge to convince people I knew what I was doing, I now need the favour of the Random Number Gods and Charisma.

You know it was gonna happen, man. Bethesda and Speech has always been a quicksave-mania.

My worst? I spent 5 minutes or more outside the villa with the ancient aliens guy: " 'Please let me-' 'No!' *Quicksave* 'Please let me-' 'No!' *Quicksave* 'Please let me-' 'No!' *Quicksave* 'Please let me-' 'No!' *Quicksave* 'Please let me-' 'No!' *Quicksave* 'Please let me-' 'No!' *Quicksave* "

You wanna know what my cousin did? Player. modav CHA 10. He didn't bother at all.

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15-01-2016, 04:04 AM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2016 08:12 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Fallout Boner
(14-01-2016 11:12 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 08:33 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  Personally I disagree, I actually like the new dialogue. Getting to hear your character speak is great. Since playing DA:I I've found voiced dialogue to be much better. Just look at the Directorate meetings. You never could have had something like that with the old dialogue. However, I do have 2 problems with it: people walking away or being pushed away while I'm talking to them, ending (sometimes very important) conversations which pisses me off, and how you can never tell if asking a question will advance you in dialogue or not. I've been playing Mass Effect lately and (given that Bioware games seem to be Bethesda's inspiration for the new dialogue) the ME system where question are on one side (and NEVER advance you in conversation) works much better. I always want to hear everything someone has to say and I'm never sure if a question will advance the dialogue or not. It is nice that you can save during the dialogues though.

Personally I think that the new dialogue would work really well in TES, which has never had very good dialogue. I hope in TES VI they give each race and sex it's own voice, or at the very least give an Argonian PC a hissy voice and a Khajiit one that weird 3rd person thing.

I don't care that the dialogue is voiced, that isn't the problem I have. My biggest problem with the simplified 'Mass Effect style' dialogue is that in addition to feeling much more limiting, it is also really vague. In the last games, I knew what the character would 'say', now I don't have a way to be sure. And as you point out, the lack of an Investigate option is especially annoying given the already sparse options. ME has it for a reason. My other key problem with the dialogue will be touched on further down once the two 'problem areas' intersect.

The system just does not feel like it belongs in a Fallout game.

(14-01-2016 08:33 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  I also think taking off the level cap was a good move. I hated that about New Vegas and Fallout 3. I'm also really glad that you can keep playing after you finish the game. The only problem is the game seems to be missing side quests. Skyrim had so many side quests (and those misc. quests) that you could never hope to finish them all. Fallout 4 just has those godawful Minutemen radiant quests that Preston Garvey gives, each time you return them. Apparently that whole militia you put together is totally useless.

I can get people liking the removal of the level cap; personally, I don't really care about it at all, though I did kind of like having my perk choices need to be carefully considered, lest I waste a level.
But my beef with the levelling system in Fallout 4 has nothing to do with the cap; so forget that completely.

I liked the skill-perk system of Fallouts 1-NV; where the perks you were able to get were limited to ones which you were skilled enough to unlock, which made your levelling up choices matter a bit more, and made sense from an RP perspective of the character getting better as they grow more experienced.
The system they put in place, this faux skill-tree chart-thing they have set up is unclear and annoying because of it.
In my meaningless opinion it feels like they lost sight of its RPG roots; it feels like it has been 'simplified' for the sake of broader consumer appeal, and they failed at simplification; leaving a shambles in the place of the long-established functional system.

My bigger problem with the levelling system ties into the dialogue system; in the older Fallout titles, your skills determined your path through quite a bit of dialogue; 3 was quite limited in that, but that is why I prefer NV; because it stepped up from 3 and included more options for skill checks and more diverse ones.
In Fallout 4 however, that does not exist at all; convincing is based entirely on chance. Where in New Vegas, I required 'vocal' demonstrations of my knowledge to convince people I knew what I was doing, I now need the favour of the Random Number Gods and Charisma.


On the whole, it all works. While you can pan the simplified dialogue system, it's somewhat unreasonable to lament the lack of skill based speech checks when they've entirely scrapped the skill system itself; you need both, and the game has neither. While only the developers could say as to which came first, their dialogue system works well along with their character progression system; and if you're going to experiment with a voiced protagonist, it makes more sense in Fallout (male and female human) than in an Elder Scrolls game (male and female for 10 different races). Don't care about dialogue checks? Invest your points in anything but Charisma. Want to pass those checks? Great, now you have to invest in Charisma and cannot cheese the system still achieving a 95+% success rate with a maxed Speech skill and a garbage Charisma; because that was the only thing Charisma used to be good for. Now not only is the leveling system streamlined, but there are interesting options for all of the SPECIAL stats, giving you compelling reasons to invest points into any and all of the stats; because no single SPECIAL is a dump stat. Do you lose some flavor in no longer having specific speech checks for particular skills? Yeah. But from a larger, meta-game perspective, it makes the game a more unified and better balanced whole. Is it possible to make some bad decisions in the early game? Sure. Are they ever really egregious enough to demand a restart because you've created a neigh unplayable character, something that was entirely possible in previous games? No. The only thing you need to do to rectify a bad perk choice is to level up and pick a different perk, and there is no level cap; I hit Lv107 on my last play-through.

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15-01-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Fallout Boner
(15-01-2016 04:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 11:12 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I don't care that the dialogue is voiced, that isn't the problem I have. My biggest problem with the simplified 'Mass Effect style' dialogue is that in addition to feeling much more limiting, it is also really vague. In the last games, I knew what the character would 'say', now I don't have a way to be sure. And as you point out, the lack of an Investigate option is especially annoying given the already sparse options. ME has it for a reason. My other key problem with the dialogue will be touched on further down once the two 'problem areas' intersect.

The system just does not feel like it belongs in a Fallout game.


I can get people liking the removal of the level cap; personally, I don't really care about it at all, though I did kind of like having my perk choices need to be carefully considered, lest I waste a level.
But my beef with the levelling system in Fallout 4 has nothing to do with the cap; so forget that completely.

I liked the skill-perk system of Fallouts 1-NV; where the perks you were able to get were limited to ones which you were skilled enough to unlock, which made your levelling up choices matter a bit more, and made sense from an RP perspective of the character getting better as they grow more experienced.
The system they put in place, this faux skill-tree chart-thing they have set up is unclear and annoying because of it.
In my meaningless opinion it feels like they lost sight of its RPG roots; it feels like it has been 'simplified' for the sake of broader consumer appeal, and they failed at simplification; leaving a shambles in the place of the long-established functional system.

My bigger problem with the levelling system ties into the dialogue system; in the older Fallout titles, your skills determined your path through quite a bit of dialogue; 3 was quite limited in that, but that is why I prefer NV; because it stepped up from 3 and included more options for skill checks and more diverse ones.
In Fallout 4 however, that does not exist at all; convincing is based entirely on chance. Where in New Vegas, I required 'vocal' demonstrations of my knowledge to convince people I knew what I was doing, I now need the favour of the Random Number Gods and Charisma.


On the whole, it all works. While you can lament the simplified dialogue system, it's unreasonable to lament the lack of skill based speech checks when they've entirely scrapped the skill system itself; you need both, and the game has neither. While only the developers could say as to which came first, their dialogue system works along with their character progression system; and if you're going to experiment with a voiced protagonist, it makes more sense in Fallout (male and female human) than in an Elder Scrolls game (male and female for 10 different races). Don't care about dialogue checks? Invest your points in anything but Charisma. Want to pass those checks? Great, now you have to invest in Charisma and cannot cheese the system still achieving a 95+% success rate with a maxed Speech skill and a garbage Charisma; because that was the only thing Charisma used to be good for. Now not only is the leveling system streamlined, but there are interesting options for all of the SPECIAL stats, giving you compelling reasons to invest points into any and all of the stats; because no single SPECIAL is a dump stat. Do you lose some flavor in no longer having specific speech checks for particular skills? Yeah. But from a larger, meta-game perspective, it makes the game a more unified and better balanced whole. Is it possible to make some bad decisions in the early game? Sure. Are they ever really egregious enough to demand a restart because you've created a neigh unplayable character, something that was entirely possible in previous games? No. The only thing you need to do to rectify a bad perk choice is to level up and pick a different perk, and there is no level cap; I hit Lv107 on my last play-through.

Couldn't they just have set a perk at Charisma level 7 or 8 where it's like "invest a perk point here and you can pass tier 1 of speech checks" and so on. It would still require high Charisma and it would remove the broken percentage system. Even if you have a 80 % chance of convincing somebody, you can still fail over and over again. It has happened to me in Fallout 3, Skyrim, KOTOR, and Mass Effect 2. And if there's a quicksave workaround to ANYTHING in ANY game, then people will use it. And I sure as hell did when I stood outside that fucking house with that PA getting denied by that ghoul over and over again.

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15-01-2016, 07:28 AM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2016 08:11 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Fallout Boner
(15-01-2016 07:00 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Couldn't they just have set a perk at Charisma level 7 or 8 where it's like "invest a perk point here and you can pass tier 1 of speech checks" and so on. It would still require high Charisma and it would remove the broken percentage system. Even if you have a 80 % chance of convincing somebody, you can still fail over and over again. It has happened to me in Fallout 3, Skyrim, KOTOR, and Mass Effect 2. And if there's a quicksave workaround to ANYTHING in ANY game, then people will use it. And I sure as hell did when I stood outside that fucking house with that PA getting denied by that ghoul over and over again.


You might have, but certainly not everyone does. If you were allowed to re-roll every d20 dice roll in a game of Dungeons & Dragons until you got a natural 20 (automatic success), how would that change the game? How much would that fundamentally break the experience and drive everyone else at the game table mad with impatience? Quick saving is there for convenience, it's your choice to abuse it to game the systems in place. Same thing with the Dogmeat item duplication, or straight up using the command console. Some people would have just accepted the failed speech check, others might have come back after raising their Charisma legitimately, still many more probably didn't even encounter that quest, and still others will otherwise glitch, exploit, or command console their way through it. By your logic, by including a command console, then what's the point of the game itself? It's there after all, so why not use to to just cheat past everything? Why not use a save editor or trainer to giver yourself all 10's in SPECIAL and 300% in all skills in Fallout 1 & 2? Simple answer: not everyone enjoys circumventing the game's challenges.


Save scumming simply bothered you less than sticking with your actual dice roll or building your character in such a way to have a legitimately better chance to succeed; that's entirely on you and the choices you made.


I just started a new game, after beating Xenoblade Chronicles X, and I've decided to stick to the limitations instead of bypassing them. My last game I used console commands to max out my SPECIAL and went about my business, this time I'm sticking to my flawed character to see how far I can get on the hardest setting. Rolling out a new female survivor with a SPECIAL spread of 2-4-2-4-6-8-2 on Survival difficulty (enemies do 2X damage, radiation is much stronger, items heal over time instead of instantly). Going for Lone Survivor and skipping all of the companions besides Dogmeat (he's bugged, so he doesn't count as a companion so you get full perk benefits with him). High Intelligence for crafting, hacking, and generous XP boost; plus the cannon female survivor was a lawyer. Even higher agility, going to be a fucking ninja to aid in survivability. Strength, Endurance, and Luck are all tanked; so my HP and carrying capacity are severely limited, as will the quality and quantity of what I scavenge. Decent Perception for threat detection, Rifleman (arguable the most versatile weapon perk), and Locksmith. Also decent Charisma for barter, speech checks, and that all important Local Leader for building settlements and making supply lines. I don't have to do this, but chose to do this because I'm going to have fun playing the game against the limitations it's placed me under. That's my choice, and I can change my mind at anytime and start save scumming or open up the command console. But that's certainly not a mark against Bethesda or their game design.


Also, this system wasn't in Mass Effect 2. You had your options, and certain choices were locked behind X amount of paragon or renegade points, but those options never had a failure chance; it was gated behind simple point accumulation.

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