Fallout Boner
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15-01-2016, 08:26 AM
RE: Fallout Boner
(15-01-2016 07:28 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You might have, but certainly not everyone does. If you were allowed to re-roll every d20 dice roll in a game of Dungeons & Dragons until you got a natural 20 (automatic success), how would that change the game? How much would that fundamentally break the experience and drive everyone else at the game table mad with impatience? Quick saving is there for convenience, it's your choice to abuse it to game the systems in place. Same thing with the Dogmeat item duplication, or straight up using the command console. Some people would have just accepted the failed speech check, others might have come back after raising their Charisma legitimately, still many more probably didn't even encounter that quest, and still others will otherwise glitch, exploit, or command console their way through it. By your logic, by including a command console, then what's the point of the game itself? It's there after all, so why not use to to just cheat past everything? Why not use a save editor or trainer to giver yourself all 10's in SPECIAL and 300% in all skills in Fallout 1 & 2?


Save scumming bothered you less than sticking with your actual dice roll or building your character in such a way to have a legitimately better chance to succeed; that's entirely on you and the choices you made.

I just started a new game, after beating Xenoblade Chronicles X, and I've decided to stick to the limitations instead of bypassing them. My last game I used console commands to max out my SPECIAL and went about my business, this time I'm sticking to my flawed character to see how far I can get on the hardest setting. Rolling out a new female survivor with a SPECIAL spread of 2-4-2-4-6-8-2 on Survival difficulty (enemies do 2X damage, radiation is much stronger, items heal over time instead of instantly). Going for Lone Survivor and skipping all of the companions besides Dogmeat (he's bugged, so he doesn't count as a companion so you get full perk benefits with him). High Intelligence for crafting, hacking, and generous XP boost; plus the cannon female survivor was a lawyer. Even higher agility, going to be a fucking ninja to aid in survivability. Strength, Endurance, and Luck are all tanked; so my HP and carrying capacity are severely limited, as will the quality and quantity of what I scavenge. Decent Perception for threat detection, Rifleman (arguable the most versatile weapon perk), and Locksmith. Also decent Charisma for barter, speech checks, and that all important Local Leader for building settlements and making supply lines. I don't have to do this, but chose to do this because I'm going to have fun playing the game against the limitations it's placed me under. That's my choice, and I can change my mind at anytime and start save scumming or open up the command console. But that's certainly not a mark against Bethesda or their game design.

Fair enough. Although it was a bonehead move to give the romances speechchecks; even hermits can get laid.

(15-01-2016 07:28 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Also, this system wasn't in Mass Effect 2. You had your options, and certain choices were locked behind X amount of paragon or renegade points, but those options never had a failure chance; it was gated behind simple point accumulation.

Actually it is. It's very rare but it can happen. And it did with me once during the Jack/Miranda fight.

"In order to placate both squad members, it is necessary to choose a Charm or Intimidate conversation option. If Shepard does not have enough Paragon or Renegade points, the options will be grayed out, forcing a choice between the two squad members. Note that because of the way morality works in Mass Effect 2 the option could be grayed out even if the Paragon or Renegade bar appears "full" - meaning Shepard has not achieved a high enough percentage of the possible morality points that have become available to that point in the game."

-> http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Loyalty

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15-01-2016, 01:26 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2016 01:30 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Fallout Boner
(15-01-2016 08:26 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Actually it is. It's very rare but it can happen. And it did with me once during the Jack/Miranda fight.

"In order to placate both squad members, it is necessary to choose a Charm or Intimidate conversation option. If Shepard does not have enough Paragon or Renegade points, the options will be grayed out, forcing a choice between the two squad members. Note that because of the way morality works in Mass Effect 2 the option could be grayed out even if the Paragon or Renegade bar appears "full" - meaning Shepard has not achieved a high enough percentage of the possible morality points that have become available to that point in the game."

-> http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Loyalty


Uh, read that again.


If Shepard does not have enough Paragon or Renegade points, the options will be grayed out, forcing a choice between the two squad members.



Right, like I said, you simply need enough points. There is no percentage chance of failure, if you can select the option, it plays out. There is no possible chance of failure, provided you have enough points to select the option.


Note that because of the way morality works in Mass Effect 2 the option could be grayed out even if the Paragon or Renegade bar appears "full" - meaning Shepard has not achieved a high enough percentage of the possible morality points that have become available to that point in the game


As in, the bar can appear full, even if you aren't at maximum capacity for that particular bar (or total). All that means is that the visual representation of the bar can appear full, even if you actually haven't reached that tier or otherwise obtained enough points (so the display is fundamentally flawed or otherwise bugged). This would cause a speech option to be greyed out and not be selectable, not allow you to select it but yet still get a fail state. Fallout 4 allows you to select an option with a chance to fail. If you don't have enough points in Mass Effect 2, the option simply isn't selectable. There is never a variable, a dice roll, or other chance of failure once you've selected the option.

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15-01-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: Fallout Boner
(14-01-2016 11:12 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 08:33 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  Personally I disagree, I actually like the new dialogue. Getting to hear your character speak is great. Since playing DA:I I've found voiced dialogue to be much better. Just look at the Directorate meetings. You never could have had something like that with the old dialogue. However, I do have 2 problems with it: people walking away or being pushed away while I'm talking to them, ending (sometimes very important) conversations which pisses me off, and how you can never tell if asking a question will advance you in dialogue or not. I've been playing Mass Effect lately and (given that Bioware games seem to be Bethesda's inspiration for the new dialogue) the ME system where question are on one side (and NEVER advance you in conversation) works much better. I always want to hear everything someone has to say and I'm never sure if a question will advance the dialogue or not. It is nice that you can save during the dialogues though.

Personally I think that the new dialogue would work really well in TES, which has never had very good dialogue. I hope in TES VI they give each race and sex it's own voice, or at the very least give an Argonian PC a hissy voice and a Khajiit one that weird 3rd person thing.

I don't care that the dialogue is voiced, that isn't the problem I have. My biggest problem with the simplified 'Mass Effect style' dialogue is that in addition to feeling much more limiting, it is also really vague. In the last games, I knew what the character would 'say', now I don't have a way to be sure. And as you point out, the lack of an Investigate option is especially annoying given the already sparse options. ME has it for a reason. My other key problem with the dialogue will be touched on further down once the two 'problem areas' intersect.

The system just does not feel like it belongs in a Fallout game.

(14-01-2016 08:33 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  I also think taking off the level cap was a good move. I hated that about New Vegas and Fallout 3. I'm also really glad that you can keep playing after you finish the game. The only problem is the game seems to be missing side quests. Skyrim had so many side quests (and those misc. quests) that you could never hope to finish them all. Fallout 4 just has those godawful Minutemen radiant quests that Preston Garvey gives, each time you return them. Apparently that whole militia you put together is totally useless.

I can get people liking the removal of the level cap; personally, I don't really care about it at all, though I did kind of like having my perk choices need to be carefully considered, lest I waste a level.
But my beef with the levelling system in Fallout 4 has nothing to do with the cap; so forget that completely.

I liked the skill-perk system of Fallouts 1-NV; where the perks you were able to get were limited to ones which you were skilled enough to unlock, which made your levelling up choices matter a bit more, and made sense from an RP perspective of the character getting better as they grow more experienced.
The system they put in place, this faux skill-tree chart-thing they have set up is unclear and annoying because of it.
In my meaningless opinion it feels like they lost sight of its RPG roots; it feels like it has been 'simplified' for the sake of broader consumer appeal, and they failed at simplification; leaving a shambles in the place of the long-established functional system.

My bigger problem with the levelling system ties into the dialogue system; in the older Fallout titles, your skills determined your path through quite a bit of dialogue; 3 was quite limited in that, but that is why I prefer NV; because it stepped up from 3 and included more options for skill checks and more diverse ones.
In Fallout 4 however, that does not exist at all; convincing is based entirely on chance. Where in New Vegas, I required 'vocal' demonstrations of my knowledge to convince people I knew what I was doing, I now need the favour of the Random Number Gods and Charisma.

I don't think the dialogue is based off chance. I think it is based purely off your charisma skill and a few other perks.

As for getting rid of skills, I don't personally like it, but it's not nearly as bad as Skyrim's skill system. At least FO4 still has attributes, which determine your health and stuff, where as Skyrim had no attributes and you just chose stamina, magicka or health. That really pissed me off after I went back and played Oblivion, because it took so much out of the game. Drugs and alcohol were ruined. I was expecting that they would dumb it down for consumer appeal anyway, so I was just happy that they didn't fuck it up like they did with Skyrim. (Although I still think Skyrim is an amazing game, it's just that in some ways it is a lesser game than Oblivion.)

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17-02-2016, 06:57 AM
RE: Fallout Boner
So, for those interested

Signup for (closed) beta testing of Fallout 4 DLC is now open. If selected, you get to keep the DLC at no charge. Sign-up on their website.

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17-02-2016, 11:48 AM
Fallout Boner
(13-01-2016 06:27 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 04:16 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  That's because you smoke crack.

No, it's because the dialogue in New Vegas actually belongs in a Fallout game, as opposed to the trash they stuck in 4 for whatever reason.

And I dislike the levelling system 4 added as well.

Sure 4 looks better, but in my experience I can find no real improvements over Fallout 3 (the last Bethesda-made Fallout), and most certainly none over NV (Obsidian's work) that are not graphical in nature or ripped from the pre-established modding scene.

That's the one thing I really don't like about 4. I wish I could turn off the character voice and go back to the old dialogue system... I always like to imagine what my characters would sound like, and the voice we're stuck with is a million miles away from what I want.

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