Family Frustration. Anyone Else?
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29-10-2013, 10:31 PM
Family Frustration. Anyone Else?
Hello,

My name is Mark. I apologize if this belongs in the intro thread, but it is my first post and I had a little more to say than, "Hi. My name is mark."

I’ll admit it. I have very bizarre beliefs about time and space, likely from smoking large quantities of pot and dabbling lightly in quantum physics, alternate realities and altered states of consciousness. As of today I am pondering the idea that if there is ‘anything,’ out there beyond our five senses, humans are unable to perceive it, and if it is REAL (as real as hell fire) then science should be able to someday quantify it. I think that if there is a God we are no where closer to concluding it exists any more that we can conclude our souls exist. We still know very little about consciousness, and before I tangent into an area beyond the scope of my competence; and to repeat myself, my stance is if there is anything (like the beliefs fundamentalists cling onto for dear life), its obvious at our current stage of evolution we are incapable of perceiving it, and an even further cry from a personal deity that chooses sides in wars, zaps us if we think or act incorrectly, and establishes political leaders.

I am here out of frustration. I am living at home right now, and my entire family is HARD CORE evangelical Christians. Don’t get me wrong they are loving and nice people, they don't picket funerals, but they do think all of you will burn in hell… FOREVER. It is also near impossible to have a genuine conversation without a visit from Jesus. They know I am not a christian, yet they (especially my Step dad… who leads praise and worship at my family's church) all feel they need to impose their beliefs on me. That's where the frustration is, because of the presupposition about reality, life, death, and salvation, they like so many Christians feel they do not need to respect the beliefs of others. Why bother when they know they are right? Right? And to them it is just plain silly that someone would want to go to hell let alone miss out on their Awesome God’s blessings and good graces.

I know my family loves me, and wants what’s best for me. But it is a disturbing awareness, knowing that my family prays every day for me to change into something that I know you will never be. Living here I keep quiet to escape the awkward silences, condescending looks, and conversations about me needing to return to Christ behind my back.

I am a writer, and am lonely enough working on my projects, and this is an attempt to reach out to like minded people, possibly ex-Christians like myself.

Given my past, and present, I can contribute to the forum by giving my unique perspective into the psychology of Christians. I also actively am studying The Skeptics Annotated Bible, and the Queen Jane Version of The Bible, The Holy Bible For Adults Only (which is hilarious if you haven't read it)

Look forward to chatting soon.

Mark
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29-10-2013, 11:02 PM
RE: Family Frustration. Anyone Else?




Just kiddin', my man. This may be the short bus, but you're welcome aboard! Thumbsup

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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29-10-2013, 11:54 PM
RE: Family Frustration. Anyone Else?
I'm willing to bet that smoking pot is a better source of truth and morality than the bible...

Maybe you should just be abrupt and even allow yourself to get angry when they try forcing Jesus on you. Maybe if they realize how strongly you feel they might drop it.

I'd literally tell my step-dad to fuck off and take his imaginary pal Mr J with him... Although it does have mixed results.

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30-10-2013, 02:28 PM
RE: Family Frustration. Anyone Else?
Just use their religion against them.

When you see those condescending looks, just say "God knows what you are thinking and sees the evil intent of your heart. Think about the way you are treating me.

Treat others as you wish to be treated.

I think your religion is putting this hatred in your heart towards me or people like me. If you feel that your religion is good, that means that the evil looks I get from you originate directly from your own heart."

"What does that say about you ? What do you think god would say about your behavior ? "
"An all loving god cannot ever bring harm to another living being. I have nothing to fear from your god. What I fear are human beings who are not all loving.

If you want to be a better person in the eyes of the lord, then BE a better person."

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-10-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: Family Frustration. Anyone Else?
(29-10-2013 10:31 PM)MarkGoodson Wrote:  Hello,

My name is Mark. I apologize if this belongs in the intro thread, but it is my first post and I had a little more to say than, "Hi. My name is mark."

I’ll admit it. I have very bizarre beliefs about time and space, likely from smoking large quantities of pot and dabbling lightly in quantum physics, alternate realities and altered states of consciousness. As of today I am pondering the idea that if there is ‘anything,’ out there beyond our five senses, humans are unable to perceive it, and if it is REAL (as real as hell fire) then science should be able to someday quantify it. I think that if there is a God we are no where closer to concluding it exists any more that we can conclude our souls exist. We still know very little about consciousness, and before I tangent into an area beyond the scope of my competence; and to repeat myself, my stance is if there is anything (like the beliefs fundamentalists cling onto for dear life), its obvious at our current stage of evolution we are incapable of perceiving it, and an even further cry from a personal deity that chooses sides in wars, zaps us if we think or act incorrectly, and establishes political leaders.

-Hallo Mark ^^
-maybe there is a God out there, that his existence for now we still cant prove, cant quantify it, and today science seems still far away reaching to it.
-but the beauty of atheist, is simply take a step and say God is not exist. This is what makes Atheist different from Agnostic. Being an Atheist, gives a great opportunity to start and learn "how to live a good life without God". That opportunity can give precious contribution to humanity and humankind.

(29-10-2013 10:31 PM)MarkGoodson Wrote:  I am here out of frustration. I am living at home right now, and my entire family is HARD CORE evangelical Christians. Don’t get me wrong they are loving and nice people, they don't picket funerals, but they do think all of you will burn in hell… FOREVER. It is also near impossible to have a genuine conversation without a visit from Jesus. They know I am not a christian, yet they (especially my Step dad… who leads praise and worship at my family's church) all feel they need to impose their beliefs on me. That's where the frustration is, because of the presupposition about reality, life, death, and salvation, they like so many Christians feel they do not need to respect the beliefs of others. Why bother when they know they are right? Right? And to them it is just plain silly that someone would want to go to hell let alone miss out on their Awesome God’s blessings and good graces.

I know my family loves me, and wants what’s best for me. But it is a disturbing awareness, knowing that my family prays every day for me to change into something that I know you will never be. Living here I keep quiet to escape the awkward silences, condescending looks, and conversations about me needing to return to Christ behind my back.

-Yea, other people that try persistently to convert us and save us from hell, can be very annoyed. Specially when those other people is the one that we care or we love.
-They maybe worried about someday you will be in hell. Its logical and normal for them to hope and pray that God will show you the way with miracle or something else. The hard things, is u know that you will never live up to their expectations. Yea, its sad sometimes, but we must accept that we cant meet up everybody expectations. If praying can ease their pain (worried can be painful too) can calm them a bit, give a hope (nothing impossible for God), maybe its good for them.
-you live with them? if only one week or one month, all awkward silences and anything "conversations behind us" would not be so much trouble, but living in one house in long term can become serious problem regarding quality of life and relationship. I dunno, but if there's a possibility to move out from there, then take it even its a bit risky. if not possible for right now, try to make a plan to move out from there, like maybe save some money.
-I have a problem too in my family (I live with my parent), not about religion but, it make the situations in my parent house just like you bro. I tried to keep conversation and interaction with my parent at minimum, trying to keep myself at my room most of time and they too talk about me behind my back (which i can still hear it a bit from my room). I take a risk, move out and rent a house with only little saving money to survive.
-my consideration is, If i stay, the situation and my relation with my parent can only be worse. I cant force my father to change and my father too cant force me to change. but if I move out, then situation can be better, i can maintenance a good relationship because we are not interact everyday and that make a conflict at minimum.

Separated - Usher
If love was a bird, then we wouldn't have wings
If love was a sky, we'd be blue
If love was a choir, you and I could never sing
'Cause love isn't for me and you
If love was an Oscar, you and I could never win
'Cause we could never act out our parts
If love is the bible, then we are lost in sin
Cause it's not in our hearts

So why don't you go your way
And I'll go mine
Live your life
And I'll live mine
Baby you'll do well
And I'll be fine
'Cause we're better off separated Sadcryface2
......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v4zbWyfwxQ

-Maybe move out is not the ideal way, but for me, I want to preserve or even make a good relationship in my family. You know, when there is no God and Life is only run one time then family, friends and society relations become very important and precious for me. Its just my opinion anyway.

(29-10-2013 10:31 PM)MarkGoodson Wrote:  I am a writer, and am lonely enough working on my projects, and this is an attempt to reach out to like minded people, possibly ex-Christians like myself.

Given my past, and present, I can contribute to the forum by giving my unique perspective into the psychology of Christians. I also actively am studying The Skeptics Annotated Bible, and the Queen Jane Version of The Bible, The Holy Bible For Adults Only (which is hilarious if you haven't read it)

Look forward to chatting soon.

Mark

-yea, lonely is not good! we only live for one time. This life must be Good and fun! I'm too super newbie here, trying to make some friends from all over the world. Its really and advantage for our generation now, cos maybe 30-40 years ago, its hard to know people from the other part of the world.

Madman
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30-10-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: Family Frustration. Anyone Else?
I highly recommend Dr. Peter Boghossian's A Manual for Creating Atheists:

http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Creating-At...g+atheists

It will help you turn those encounters into opportunities to help disabuse your family members of their faith. Boghossian's recommendations are based on peer-reviewed literature. It is literally the first book of its kind.

One extremely important point in the book is this: Explain precisely what it would take to change your mind (I like the example of the stars aligning to read "I am Yahweh, father of Jehovah"), and then ask precisely what it would take to change their mind.

If you're not prepared for that, I recommend simply handing them 50 Great Myths About Atheism and/or 50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God. Tell them if they read your book, you'll read any book of their choice. Show them you're open to new ideas, and they may become open to yours.
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31-10-2013, 12:59 AM
RE: Family Frustration. Anyone Else?
I'm in the same boat. Xian from age 17 to 40, graduated from seminary, served in various churches, etc. Then I came to the realization that I could no longer believe, and that's when the family follies began.

My dad has Alzheimer's, so he's pretty much checked out of the debate club, but my mother and older brother nag me about my terrible loss of faith. My bro is the worst because he likes to needle me about my atheism in front of our mom, which sets her off. Really adds joy to family gatherings, and I'm around them a lot, so it's a drag.

What's ironic about the whole thing is that I spent my entire Xian walk sweating the load about their salvation, as they never showed any fruits of a relationship with Jesus. But now, I'm the heathen in danger of hellfire. They don't want to deal with any evidence that contradicts Xianity, so that's out. All I can do is hold my ground until they tun out of gas and the subject changes. Not fun, but I figure it could be worse.
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31-10-2013, 09:32 PM
RE: Family Frustration. Anyone Else?
Welcome! Everyone here is great except two or three christian apologeticists and a grumpy atheist or two. But without them it would be boring right? So read around and get a jist of who's who, just to avoid any bad encounters with Exubitor (or at least to flame him) and his progeny.

Glad to have a fellow thinker. Usually the good news about trouble with family is that some day you move out, and get to move away. Sometimes far, far away. Then when you actually go home, they are so glad just to see you there is no mention of any of it. For an atheist in an Evangelical family, that's the closest we get to heaven. IMHO.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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