Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
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23-12-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
(23-12-2014 10:38 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 10:31 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  When I was a member of American Atheists, I remember one of the "members of the year" was crowned after he removed hundreds of roadside crosses with his truck.

I don't agree with that behavior.
I don't either, and it's one of the reasons I left the group. There are much more pressing goals atheists can take up, and partaking in removing crosses that represent individuals rather than government as a whole only weakens our stance when we try to remove these nativity scenes.

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23-12-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
(23-12-2014 10:08 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  But there are many other examples, like removing crosses from memorials on the side of the road after Christians die in car accidents.

The only times I've seen that sort of complaint it turned out to be the highway department removing ALL makeshift memorials from the side of the road. Most were Christian but crosses weren't being specifically targeted. Do you have an example of anything else?

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23-12-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
We should have a holiday thread tho ...
"How did you make the Baby Jesus cry this year ?" Yes

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23-12-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
(23-12-2014 11:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  We should have a holiday thread tho ...
"How did you make the Baby Jesus cry this year ?" Yes

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23-12-2014, 12:10 PM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2014 12:37 PM by Patriot10mm.)
RE: Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
(23-12-2014 11:23 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 10:08 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  But there are many other examples, like removing crosses from memorials on the side of the road after Christians die in car accidents.

The only times I've seen that sort of complaint it turned out to be the highway department removing ALL makeshift memorials from the side of the road. Most were Christian but crosses weren't being specifically targeted. Do you have an example of anything else?
How about atheists suing to remove the cross shaped beams from the 9/11 museum?

Or atheists suing a California city that paid for a war memorial that depicted a soldier kneeling next to a grave with a cross on it? The cross is used on all of the graves at Normandy, and is essentially a universal sign of a grave in that military aspect, not necessarily for religious purposes.

There are dozens of cases, and don't get me wrong, some of them are legit, true violations of church and state. But I don't like going after individuals or non government groups that use public property for religious things, as long as it's not actual government endorsement. Public property is for everyone, and I believe we should all be able to use it for religious or non religious speech/expression. A government that allows religious expression on the property is not violating church and state separation unless they only allow one specific religion.

For example, 10 commandment displays put up by a judge in his court room visible to everyone, or erected in the front of the building. That is wrong. But if the same judge wanted to keep a copy on his desk in his office I wouldn't mind that. Or they should allow every religion that wants to erect something.

Also, I want In God We Trust off American money.

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23-12-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
(23-12-2014 12:10 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 11:23 AM)unfogged Wrote:  The only times I've seen that sort of complaint it turned out to be the highway department removing ALL makeshift memorials from the side of the road. Most were Christian but crosses weren't being specifically targeted. Do you have an example of anything else?

So you're dropping the roadside memorials?

Quote:How about atheists suing to remove the cross shaped beams from the 9/11 museum?

That one I find kind of funny. They think finding a simple cross shape in the wreckage, even one prominently displayed, is anything that would be unexpected given the structure and what happened. If all their god can do is such a feeble reminder that he watched and did nothing then they can have the cross for all I care. It says more to me about how ridiculous the belief is than anything else.

Quote:Or atheists suing a California city that paid for a war memorial that depicted a soldier kneeling next to a grave with a cross on it? The cross is used on all of the graves at Normandy, and is essentially a universal sign of a grave in that military aspect, not necessarily for religious purposes.

If a government-sponsored memorial has only a cross then it should not be erected and, if built, should be modified or removed. I don't buy the excuse that the cross is a generic symbol for a second because none of the Christians would see it that way. The memorial honors Christian dead and is a slap in the face for other faiths and atheists who also served.

Quote:There are dozens of cases, and don't get me wrong, some of them are legit, true violations of church and state. But I don't like going after individuals or non government groups that use public property for religious things, as long as it's not actual government endorsement. Public property is for everyone, and I believe we should all be able to use it for religious or non religious speech/expression. A government that allows religious expression on the property is not violating church and state separation unless they only allow one specific religion.

I don't entirely disagree but your war memorial example is not something that isn't government endorsement. I don't object to public space being open to use by religious groups for specific events as long as the rules are clear and open to any religion that abides by them. Longer-term displays (e.g. Christmas nativity scenes) are more problematical because space is limited and it becomes a farce when you allow everybody in at the same time. That can be worked around but usually just generates friction. Permanent displays need to be resisted for the same reasons, just more so.

Quote:For example, 10 commandment displays put up by a judge in his court room visible to everyone, or erected in the front of the building. That is wrong. But if the same judge wanted to keep a copy on his desk in his office I wouldn't mind that.

We may actually agree on something there. My only concern would be that the judge is not presenting his personal views when meeting in chambers or holding biblical law over civil law in his rulings. The job he accepted as a judge is to uphold the civil law even if he personally disagrees with it.

Quote:Or they should allow every religion that wants to erect something.

Which is good in theory but difficult in practice given the sheer number of different groups. I've seen lottery systems used but, as I said earlier, it just seems to generate friction and I think it'd be far simpler if government just stayed the hell away from even the appearance of promoting religion.

Quote:Also, I want In God We Trust off American money.

Yes, making that the national motto was a huge mistake.

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23-12-2014, 03:18 PM
RE: Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
Somehow, I came to this thread expecting it to be about a shenanigans-filled story of someone trying to steal a baby Jesus from a nativity scene or two angry women fist fighting over a baby Jesus figure. Sort of disappointed, actually.

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23-12-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: Fart News "Hands off Baby Jebus"
(23-12-2014 03:18 PM)Miss Suzanne Wrote:  Somehow, I came to this thread expecting it to be about a shenanigans-filled story of someone trying to steal a baby Jesus from a nativity scene or two angry women fist fighting over a baby Jesus figure. Sort of disappointed, actually.

How about churches using science to track stolen Jesii?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/12/...ativities/

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