Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
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20-05-2012, 09:26 PM
Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
Just came across this video by philhellenes. Figured I'd share:
http://youtu.be/ANfvjNob3Qo


Would love to hear the thoughts from the theists that frequent these boards.

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20-05-2012, 10:09 PM (This post was last modified: 21-05-2012 01:33 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
Christians insist on their god being Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnibenevolent.
No god can be all three at the same time. The attributes contradict each other.

If god knows what He will do in the future and because He is Omnipotent, does something else, then He is not omniscient.
If god knows what He will do in the future and cannot do something else, then He is not omnipotent.

If God knows the future, if the future can be known, that means that the future is predictable and unchangeable. This, in turn, means that our actions are predetermined. If god is all knowing, free will is an illusion.
This also binds god, in that He knows what he will do in the future, and He must do it.


There is no "Free will " :
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

They might argue, that while god has a plan for each of us, he doesn't force us to follow the plan. The problem is that if a person does not follow god's plan, it may effect my ability to follow god's plan. (A drunk driver may run me down. A robber may shoot me).

Ephesians 1:11 "We have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."

"this man [Christ Jesus] delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God" (Acts 2:23a NASB).

Calvinists believe our fates are sealed, even before we are born. This would mean that god allows humans to be born, knowing they will someday burn forever.

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Sent by Jebus to put the stud back in Bible Study.
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21-05-2012, 05:25 AM (This post was last modified: 21-05-2012 05:31 AM by ahoy.)
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
Yes indeed, a fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence. : )
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21-05-2012, 07:06 AM
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
I first encounter the word “omni” with the word “omnivorous”

Omnivores (from Latin: omni, meaning "all, everything"; vorare, "to devour")

Imagine a little kid telling another kid:

Kid#1: I have a pet, it is omnivorous.
Kid#2: Really, it can eat all kinds of foods?
Kid#1: Yeah.
Kid#2: It can eat itself?
Kid#1: Why would it eat itself, yes it can but why?
Kid#2: You said all kinds of foods?
Kid#2: Can it eat the soil?
On so on….

In short, the kid is just picking on the other kid by making the word silly.

And what is fascinating is that popular/ big names in Philosophy are playing the game : )
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21-05-2012, 07:17 AM
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
(21-05-2012 07:06 AM)ahoy Wrote:  I first encounter the word “omni” with the word “omnivorous”

Omnivores (from Latin: omni, meaning "all, everything"; vorare, "to devour")

Imagine a little kid telling another kid:

Kid#1: I have a pet, it is omnivorous.
Kid#2: Really, it can eat all kinds of foods?
Kid#1: Yeah.
Kid#2: It can eat itself?
Kid#1: Why would it eat itself, yes it can but why?
Kid#2: You said all kinds of foods?
Kid#2: Can it eat the soil?
On so on….

In short, the kid is just picking on the other kid by making the word silly.

And what is fascinating is that popular/ big names in Philosophy are playing the game : )
So what you're saying is that there's no such as a truly omnivorous entity?

Cool. Glad we agree.

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21-05-2012, 10:10 AM
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
Omnipotence just seems like a leap of logic to me. Creating the universe does not equal being able to do everything. Some might say that the simpler definition would be omnipotence (occam's razor) but I don't really think that works. Creator of the universe = creator of the universe not all the other garbage that comes with it. Look it at it from the perspective of an ant. We can take away the life of an ant, we're much bigger than them, we can create houses (remember just an example) for them etc but it doesn't actually mean we're all powerful.

But then again, I don't really like any of the omni tags put next to a deity. They complicate things too much. And they aren't really proved at all. Just asserted (and for some reason accepted).

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.


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21-05-2012, 12:21 PM
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
Terrible video.

Biased, illogical and agenda driven.

The video's strongest feature is that the narrator has an English accent so he sounds intelligent.

Like James Brown said, he's talkin loud, ain't sayin nuthin.

Hey, Bucky.

Quote:If god knows what He will do in the future and because He is Omnipotent, does something else, then He is not omniscient.

If god knows what He will do in the future and cannot do something else, then He is not omnipotent.

That assumes that God is constrained by things like time.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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21-05-2012, 12:31 PM
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
(21-05-2012 12:21 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Terrible video.

Biased, illogical and agenda driven.

The video's strongest feature is that the narrator has an English accent so he sounds intelligent.

Like James Brown said, he's talkin loud, ain't sayin nuthin.
Care to provide any supporting evidence or rationale for your assertions? I'm not really a big fan of wide-sweeping assertions with no support whatsoever, which is more or less the opposite of what Phil does in this and other videos.

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21-05-2012, 01:48 PM
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
(20-05-2012 10:09 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Christians insist on their god being Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnibenevolent.
No god can be all three at the same time. The attributes contradict each other.

If god knows what He will do in the future and because He is Omnipotent, does something else, then He is not omniscient.
If god knows what He will do in the future and cannot do something else, then He is not omnipotent.

If God knows the future, if the future can be known, that means that the future is predictable and unchangeable. This, in turn, means that our actions are predetermined. If god is all knowing, free will is an illusion.
This also binds god, in that He knows what he will do in the future, and He must do it.

How could you logically conclude that anything in the future was knowable?

If it is unknowable, how is it knowledge?

If it is not knowledge, how would it apply to omniscience?

That's what a theist would say. They would say God is supernatural not super-logical.

Same would apply to God building a rock that he could not lift. It's a logical paradox, so it doesn't apply.

They would also say the references in the Bible were metaphorical and didn't actually indicate knowledge of the future and/or they were written by men, and men are capable of making mistakes, misinterpretations, and misrepresentations.

Not saying you couldn't defeat those arguments, but you always have to apply the 'principle of charity'.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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21-05-2012, 01:54 PM
RE: Fascinating video on the absurdity of the word omnipotence
(21-05-2012 01:48 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  How could you logically conclude that anything in the future was knowable?

If it is unknowable, how is it knowledge?

If it is not knowledge, how would it apply to omniscience?

That's what a theist would say. They would say God is supernatural not super-logical.

Same would apply to God building a rock that he could not lift. It's a logical paradox, so it doesn't apply.

They would also say the references in the Bible were metaphorical and didn't actually indicate knowledge of the future and/or they were written by men, and men are capable of making mistakes, misinterpretations, and misrepresentations.

Not saying you couldn't defeat those arguments, but you always have to apply the 'principle of charity'.
You make some good points, particularly about the principle of charity. The only thing I would say is that many theists that I've talked to do, in fact, argue that god cannot be help to our puny human standards of logic and reason (or empirical evidence for that matter).

That doesn't mean that anyone should listen to them or put any stock in said stance, but it's worth noting when reflecting on illogical concepts like an omnipotent being creating a rock he/she/it can't lift.

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