Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
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08-06-2016, 04:55 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(08-06-2016 04:13 AM)BnW Wrote:  his argument was he also had too much to drink and did something stupid, then maybe I can see having sympathy for him.

His argument was exactly that. As far as perp is concerned, the problem was that he got drunk. He makes no apology for raping her - that's y'know, you do stupid things when you're drunk... Everyone does. Puke on your best friend, go bush-diving, laugh idiotically... rape someone. It's all just a bit of fun. Besides. She was at a party, blind drunk, with a bunch of frat boys. What did she think would happen? Little slut was practically begging for it.

Adrianime, recognising that dick-face is a human being is fine, not wanting cruel and unusual punishments is fine. I get that. The guy is a prick though. As much as I personally don't want bullshit done - like prison vengeance from shutting him in a hell-hole, I won't be weeping over his fate either. He explicitly is responsible for putting himself in this situation and not through chance either. He knowingly violated someone else. Even if he wasn't thinking he might pay a consequence for that there is no excuse.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-06-2016, 05:52 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(08-06-2016 04:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 04:13 AM)BnW Wrote:  his argument was he also had too much to drink and did something stupid, then maybe I can see having sympathy for him.

His argument was exactly that. As far as perp is concerned, the problem was that he got drunk. He makes no apology for raping her - that's y'know, you do stupid things when you're drunk... Everyone does. Puke on your best friend, go bush-diving, laugh idiotically... rape someone. It's all just a bit of fun. Besides. She was at a party, blind drunk, with a bunch of frat boys. What did she think would happen? Little slut was practically begging for it.

Adrianime, recognising that dick-face is a human being is fine, not wanting cruel and unusual punishments is fine. I get that. The guy is a prick though. As much as I personally don't want bullshit done - like prison vengeance from shutting him in a hell-hole, I won't be weeping over his fate either. He explicitly is responsible for putting himself in this situation and not through chance either. He knowingly violated someone else. Even if he wasn't thinking he might pay a consequence for that there is no excuse.

His inability to take ownership of his own action makes me totally unsympathetic to his future woes. I just don't care. But there are lots of people out there and everywhere who obviously don't take ownership of their actions. It's a huge problem, it's also why this asshole is getting off so lightly. FTS!

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08-06-2016, 08:40 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(08-06-2016 03:50 AM)BnW Wrote:  This wasn't just a "bad decision". This was a violent act that would likely have been even worse if two people hadn't stumble upon it. You make this sound like he just took the car keys while he was grounded. Your attitude about this is really hard to understand.

As for what is a "fair" punishment, do you really need to do research before concluding that 6 months isn't it? Especially in light of the reasons the judge gave?

You are under no obligation to be outraged, or even mildly miffed, about this. But, to not understand the problem? I guess you're under no obligation to do that either, but it's mystifying.
I mean, I also consider armed robbery a bad decision. Or joining a gang a bad decision. Certainly there are degrees of bad decisions. You can call this a horrible decision if you want, that's fine.

I am not advocating that his 6 month sentence is just. I'm not addressing his specific sentence at all. I have no idea what an appropriate sentence is (like not even a frame of reference). I agree that he should get whatever a person of color would have got in the same situation, and there is no reason his sentence should be more lenient because of his social standing or ethnicity.

All I've been saying is I don't agree with comments like, "He should be raped." "He should get life." "He is a scumbag who will never be a decent person." "I'd like to beat the crap out of him." "Death penalty for all rapists." (note these aren't specifically quoted, but my own memory of what I've seen people say in this case and similar ones). I don't agree that his life no longer has a value because of this. That's all.

(08-06-2016 04:13 AM)BnW Wrote:  Oh, one other thing: you are looking for reasons to forgive someone who is not only not asking for forgiveness, but continues to deny he did anything wrong. For me at least, that's the really troubling part about your attitude.

If this guy was begging forgiveness and apologizing, and his argument was he also had too much to drink and did something stupid, then maybe I can see having sympathy for him. It doesn't make the sentencing any less troubling, but at least at that point I can see someone putting themselves in his shoes. But, that's not the case here. This little shit doesn't think he did anything wrong and his father's attitude of "it was only bad for 20 minutes" seems to be the son's attitude as well. I suspect it's the sense of entitlement and utter lack of responsibility as much as the sentence that has people so pissed off. Does this really seem like a person who isn't going to do this again?
TBH, I am talking bigger picture here, not specific to this case. I don't know how this stupid kid is defending himself or being in denial. Sure it might make him less likable or outline how much of an idiot he is, but it doesn't change the overall sentiment that I don't like mob cries for people's own brand of justice.

(08-06-2016 04:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  Adrianime, recognising that dick-face is a human being is fine, not wanting cruel and unusual punishments is fine. I get that. The guy is a prick though. As much as I personally don't want bullshit done - like prison vengeance from shutting him in a hell-hole, I won't be weeping over his fate either. He explicitly is responsible for putting himself in this situation and not through chance either. He knowingly violated someone else. Even if he wasn't thinking he might pay a consequence for that there is no excuse.
Yeah man, I won't be losing any sleep over it either. I'm not invested in his well-being and he will get what he brought on himself. And he deserves to be punished. I hope he doesn't get raped in prison, that wasn't even on my radar as something that might happen. All I've been saying can be summed up in the italicized part above.

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08-06-2016, 09:03 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
Quote:All I've been saying is I don't agree with comments like, "He should be raped." "He should get life." "He is a scumbag who will never be a decent person." "I'd like to beat the crap out of him." "Deat penalty for all rapists." (note these aren't specifically quoted, but my own memory of what I've seen people say in this case and similar ones). I don't agree that his life no longer has a value because of this. That's all.

If that's really your point than fair enough. That's not what I took from your previous comments, but I have no particular issue with your aversion to calls for violence.

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08-06-2016, 09:13 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(08-06-2016 08:40 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 03:50 AM)BnW Wrote:  This wasn't just a "bad decision". This was a violent act that would likely have been even worse if two people hadn't stumble upon it. You make this sound like he just took the car keys while he was grounded. Your attitude about this is really hard to understand.

As for what is a "fair" punishment, do you really need to do research before concluding that 6 months isn't it? Especially in light of the reasons the judge gave?

You are under no obligation to be outraged, or even mildly miffed, about this. But, to not understand the problem? I guess you're under no obligation to do that either, but it's mystifying.
I mean, I also consider armed robbery a bad decision. Or joining a gang a bad decision. Certainly there are degrees of bad decisions. You can call this a horrible decision if you want, that's fine.

I am not advocating that his 6 month sentence is just. I'm not addressing his specific sentence at all. I have no idea what an appropriate sentence is (like not even a frame of reference). I agree that he should get whatever a person of color would have got in the same situation, and there is no reason his sentence should be more lenient because of his social standing or ethnicity.

All I've been saying is I don't agree with comments like, "He should be raped." "He should get life." "He is a scumbag who will never be a decent person." "I'd like to beat the crap out of him." "Death penalty for all rapists." (note these aren't specifically quoted, but my own memory of what I've seen people say in this case and similar ones). I don't agree that his life no longer has a value because of this. That's all.

(08-06-2016 04:13 AM)BnW Wrote:  Oh, one other thing: you are looking for reasons to forgive someone who is not only not asking for forgiveness, but continues to deny he did anything wrong. For me at least, that's the really troubling part about your attitude.

If this guy was begging forgiveness and apologizing, and his argument was he also had too much to drink and did something stupid, then maybe I can see having sympathy for him. It doesn't make the sentencing any less troubling, but at least at that point I can see someone putting themselves in his shoes. But, that's not the case here. This little shit doesn't think he did anything wrong and his father's attitude of "it was only bad for 20 minutes" seems to be the son's attitude as well. I suspect it's the sense of entitlement and utter lack of responsibility as much as the sentence that has people so pissed off. Does this really seem like a person who isn't going to do this again?
TBH, I am talking bigger picture here, not specific to this case. I don't know how this stupid kid is defending himself or being in denial. Sure it might make him less likable or outline how much of an idiot he is, but it doesn't change the overall sentiment that I don't like mob cries for people's own brand of justice.

(08-06-2016 04:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  Adrianime, recognising that dick-face is a human being is fine, not wanting cruel and unusual punishments is fine. I get that. The guy is a prick though. As much as I personally don't want bullshit done - like prison vengeance from shutting him in a hell-hole, I won't be weeping over his fate either. He explicitly is responsible for putting himself in this situation and not through chance either. He knowingly violated someone else. Even if he wasn't thinking he might pay a consequence for that there is no excuse.
Yeah man, I won't be losing any sleep over it either. I'm not invested in his well-being and he will get what he brought on himself. And he deserves to be punished. I hope he doesn't get raped in prison, that wasn't even on my radar as something that might happen. All I've been saying can be summed up in the italicized part above.

I don't see why you worried about saying this.

Personally, I don't really believe in "punishment" in the first place. It's a religious concept that comes with sin and the free will given by god.

I do believe in making our society as safe as possible for all. Hence I believe in removing him from society for long enough to wish he had never raped. Then he gets a second chance.

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08-06-2016, 09:28 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(08-06-2016 01:09 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Not wanting to neuter a dog has nothing to do with sexual urges. It has to do with mutilating an animal's body. I also find it cruel to declaw cats, for the exact same reason.

seriosuly wtf?! You're drawing a false equivalence.

Declawing a cat isn't akin to nuetering a dog. When you declaw a cat you're taking away the cat's ability to climb, jump, you're affecting their balance and ability defend themselves, should they get out. Also the recovery time is extremely long and the risk of infection to declawed cats is huge.

Nuetering a dog is simply about the thousands of dogs each year that are euthanized because there are simply not enough homes. Usually they recover within 24 hours. Female dogs do require a bit more care, but since it doesn't alter the dog's outward appearance, maybe you don't have issue with that??

You're also anthropomorphizing dogs. Dogs will behave the way dogs behave. I don't care how well trained a dog is, if a female in heat passes their way, they will be compelled to act on it.

Anyone who thinks their dog won't do that is deluded and contributing to the over-population of dogs.

Now had you wrote that you believed neutering a pet is more like cropping ears or docking tails, I might not have agreed, but I wouldn't have wasted time commenting or replying.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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08-06-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
I'm with the view shared by many neuroscientists on the subject that probability of reciprocity is a more rational factor in determining how a convicted person should be dealt with than whether or not they are to blame. Blame is a flawed concept. Once one accepts that there is no spiritual component, and that everything we think is present as a physical manifestation in our brains, then the whole idea of some people being responsible for their actions through their ability to exercise free will and make choices and others not being responsible for their actions due to circumstances or mental conditions beyond their control ceases to be relevant. My brain made me do it / choose not to do it is just as true for both.

That said, my main concern is the end goal of not having a rapist on the streets contaminating society and, through no fault of his own, fucking things up for everyone else with his comparatively defective brain. I don't care whether or not he was at fault for his actions or how cute he was as a baby. Whether he's rehabilitated (if possible) and released, kept in jail for a long time, or sacrificed into a volcano matters little to me. What matters is that he's not raping or that his freedom, if that's the route that is taken, is not negatively affecting the psychological well being of the victim.

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08-06-2016, 09:53 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
Backlash.

Quote:Nearly 400,000 people have signed a petition calling for the removal of the judge who sentenced 20-year-old ex-Stanford swimmer Brock Turner to six months in a county jail, ABC News reported.

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08-06-2016, 10:29 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(08-06-2016 09:53 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Backlash.

Quote:Nearly 400,000 people have signed a petition calling for the removal of the judge who sentenced 20-year-old ex-Stanford swimmer Brock Turner to six months in a county jail, ABC News reported.

The more I read about this case, regardless of what others might think the issue is, the judge totally fucked up.

I have to wonder if this some sort of pattern with this judge. Does he give everyone a slap on the wrist? I sort of want to believe he's just one of "those judges" who's a defense attorney's dream, my cynical nature prevents that.

If I believed in the justice department's ability to self-regulate themselves, I might be persuaded to just allow judicial review to handle it.

But...

I don't know. I certainly believe in judicial latitude -- when truly appropriate -- and I completely despise the idea of idea of mandatory sentences (as well as three strike laws) that bind judges hands and benefit the prison system that are now mostly outsourced by private, for profit companies.

People have to be very careful about what they wish for -- and I understand and share the outrage. People really need to think it through because it's never about one bad judge.


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08-06-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(08-06-2016 09:28 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 01:09 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Not wanting to neuter a dog has nothing to do with sexual urges. It has to do with mutilating an animal's body. I also find it cruel to declaw cats, for the exact same reason.

seriosuly wtf?! You're drawing a false equivalence.

Declawing a cat isn't akin to nuetering a dog. When you declaw a cat you're taking away the cat's ability to climb, jump, you're affecting their balance and ability defend themselves, should they get out. Also the recovery time is extremely long and the risk of infection to declawed cats is huge.

Nuetering a dog is simply about the thousands of dogs each year that are euthanized because there are simply not enough homes. Usually they recover within 24 hours. Female dogs do require a bit more care, but since it doesn't alter the dog's outward appearance, maybe you don't have issue with that??

You're also anthropomorphizing dogs. Dogs will behave the way dogs behave. I don't care how well trained a dog is, if a female in heat passes their way, they will be compelled to act on it.

Anyone who thinks their dog won't do that is deluded and contributing to the over-population of dogs.

Now had you wrote that you believed neutering a pet is more like cropping ears or docking tails, I might not have agreed, but I wouldn't have wasted time commenting or replying.
I'm not talking about reason of taking the action or the outcome. I'm purely talking about the action itself. And you are right, I might be seeing dogs as more than just "animals". I just personally don't feel it's right to cut into another creature unless it's medically necessary (or for food). It may be a "necessary evil" given what we've done to dogs, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Anyways, it's really not relevant to this discussion, and I don't even know why Anjele brought it up in the first place.

And, while your implication that I have some agenda against female creatures is noted, and not appreciated. No, I have no idea what pre-neutered vs post-neutered looks like for either male or female dogs.

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