Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
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11-06-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(11-06-2016 09:26 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 09:13 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  No, I wouldn't. I would expect my child to take responsibility for their actions, regardless of what that meant. If they created that situation then they need to own it and face the consequences and even make amends if possible.

Kind of scary that you think otherwise. Guess you side with scapegoating. Gasp
There's nothing scary about wanting the best possible outcome for the life of your own child. According to his statement, the convict's father wants his son to make amends as well by having him educate college students on the dangers of alcohol abuse.

Why you think that this has anything to do with scapegoating is beyond me.

There is already a surplus of people educating college students on the dangers of alcohol abuse. There is no college student in the United States who hasn't sat through hours of speeches, videos, and education about alcohol, drugs, and consent. Joining this industry is not making amends, it's setting up a resume point. There is zero indication on either the parent or child's part of remorse or an understanding of what it means to make amends.

Further, this asshole kid didn't pay attention to the people who warned about the dangers of alcohol abuse. He won't serve as an example to other kids thinking about going out and getting blasted and getting some. The only thing he can offer to his peers is what they already know: if you're the right color, right income bracket, and right sport, you'll get minimal consequences, no matter how heinous your actions.
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11-06-2016, 11:07 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(11-06-2016 10:26 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 09:43 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Scapegoating his ownership of his crime. Don't be obtuse. Dodgy
I'm not being obtuse, your statement simply doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not a native English speaker, but in my experience, the word "scapegoating" is used to describe the act of choosing a person or a group of people and wrongfully putting the blame for a particular problem on them. It's almost exclusively done for the purpose of creating an antagonistic figure that can be punished for creating this problem. A historical example would be when the Jews were blamed for the Black Death in the 14th century and the advocated solution was to massacre them before they could poison any more wells. I don't see how your usage of that term makes any sense in this context. Whom did I choose as a scapegoat in your view and for what problem?

Scapegoating is not taking responsibility for your own actions and putting it off on someone, some group or something else. He and his father denied responsibility of his actions and put that responsibility off onto drinking, college culture and even the victim herself.

In fact his father denied it so vulgarly as to call his son raping that woman as "20 minutes of action", action meaning having consensual sex with someone. What this also means is, he blamed her (more scapegoating) for his son's and his idea of "sex" being called rape.

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11-06-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
Some people just believe their children can't do anything wrong. They believe the lies their children tell them.

They just lap that shit up like Tatarus lapping cream.

They will go to extremes and even hide evidence for their children. I think they are so used to lying for the child they believe they're being honest. In the end they're just as guilty as the child committing the crime.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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11-06-2016, 11:27 AM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(10-06-2016 03:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 10:51 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Ideally, the criminal justice system ought to be practical and not moral, in my view.

Execution eliminates recidivism. Very practical. Drinking Beverage

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11-06-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(11-06-2016 11:07 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 10:26 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm not being obtuse, your statement simply doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not a native English speaker, but in my experience, the word "scapegoating" is used to describe the act of choosing a person or a group of people and wrongfully putting the blame for a particular problem on them. It's almost exclusively done for the purpose of creating an antagonistic figure that can be punished for creating this problem. A historical example would be when the Jews were blamed for the Black Death in the 14th century and the advocated solution was to massacre them before they could poison any more wells. I don't see how your usage of that term makes any sense in this context. Whom did I choose as a scapegoat in your view and for what problem?

Scapegoating is not taking responsibility for your own actions and putting it off on someone, some group or something else. He and his father denied responsibility of his actions and put that responsibility off onto drinking, college culture and even the victim herself.

In fact his father denied it so vulgarly as to call his son raping that woman as "20 minutes of action", action meaning having consensual sex with someone. What this also means is, he blamed her (more scapegoating) for his son's and his idea of "sex" being called rape.
Well, I don't think that the girl is to be blamed for being raped or that there is any excuse for what the man did. What I said is that people shouldn't be surprised by a father's attempt, however irrational, to prevent his only son from going to jail and becoming a registered sex offender for the rest of his life. The saying "Love makes blind" comes to mind. Much like people who are stuck in abusive relationships, parents are prone to shift the blame away from their children because they care deeply about them and don't want to believe that someone so close to them is an inhumane monster. It's sadly a very common psychological phenomenon. I don't know if you have kids yourself, but I imagine you've experienced it yourself at some point in your life.

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11-06-2016, 12:37 PM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(11-06-2016 12:24 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 11:07 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Scapegoating is not taking responsibility for your own actions and putting it off on someone, some group or something else. He and his father denied responsibility of his actions and put that responsibility off onto drinking, college culture and even the victim herself.

In fact his father denied it so vulgarly as to call his son raping that woman as "20 minutes of action", action meaning having consensual sex with someone. What this also means is, he blamed her (more scapegoating) for his son's and his idea of "sex" being called rape.
Well, I don't think that the girl is to be blamed for being raped or that there is any excuse for what the man did. What I said is that people shouldn't be surprised by a father's attempt, however irrational, to prevent his only son from going to jail and becoming a registered sex offender for the rest of his life. The saying "Love makes blind" comes to mind. Much like people who are stuck in abusive relationships, parents are prone to shift the blame away from their children because they care deeply about them and don't want to believe that someone so close to them is an inhumane monster. It's sadly a very common psychological phenomenon. I don't know if you have kids yourself, but I imagine you've experienced it yourself at some point in your life.

I do have kids, two of them and no, I do not support that idea of support your children no matter what and I have had some experience with my children getting into trouble. Fortunately, they learned the lessons their father and I taught them and when they were caught they did take ownership of their actions and did not try to "get out of it" nor did they grouse (complain) about their punishment.

It's called teaching children about consequences and many people do this with their children. I would say even most do. Yes, some parents think their children can do no wrong, not surprising, a lot of those parents get to visit their offspring in prison.

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11-06-2016, 03:30 PM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
I cannot agree with Heatheness more!
I do not have children yet but owning up to your mistakes and facing consequences of your actions is something my children will learn for very very sure. My husband and I are both that way ourselves and you raise your kids by good example.
If my child would ever commit a serious crime like this, which I do not hope, I would not try to wiggle them out of it. They would hopefully have learnt the lesson above and take their punishment.
Of course it would be a different story, if I know my kid is innocent. In that case I'd fight like momma-bear!

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11-06-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(11-06-2016 12:37 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 12:24 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Well, I don't think that the girl is to be blamed for being raped or that there is any excuse for what the man did. What I said is that people shouldn't be surprised by a father's attempt, however irrational, to prevent his only son from going to jail and becoming a registered sex offender for the rest of his life. The saying "Love makes blind" comes to mind. Much like people who are stuck in abusive relationships, parents are prone to shift the blame away from their children because they care deeply about them and don't want to believe that someone so close to them is an inhumane monster. It's sadly a very common psychological phenomenon. I don't know if you have kids yourself, but I imagine you've experienced it yourself at some point in your life.

I do have kids, two of them and no, I do not support that idea of support your children no matter what and I have had some experience with my children getting into trouble. Fortunately, they learned the lessons their father and I taught them and when they were caught they did take ownership of their actions and did not try to "get out of it" nor did they grouse (complain) about their punishment.

It's called teaching children about consequences and many people do this with their children. I would say even most do. Yes, some parents think their children can do no wrong, not surprising, a lot of those parents get to visit their offspring in prison.
Good on you. Hopefully more parents will follow your example so that tragedies like this can be avoided in the future.

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11-06-2016, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 11-06-2016 05:27 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(11-06-2016 09:00 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm not quite sure why the father's statement comes as a surprise to anyone here. Of course he would say anything to prevent his son's life from being ruined in a big way. Wouldn't you do the same for your kids?

I have avoided this thread precisely because that is my first instinct. Then I read the victim's statement and it might have been one of the most moving words I've ever read. Girly wept. Then I read Biden's open letter to her. Girly sobbed. I have not yet read the father's statement and don't think I will. The rape that occurred behind the dumpster was nothing compared to the rapes to come. Victim has no memory of the first one but she sure as shit does for all the ones that came after that.

#sigh
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11-06-2016, 04:15 PM
RE: Father doesn't think son should get 6MO for only 20 minutes of rape.
(11-06-2016 04:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 09:00 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm not quite sure why the father's statement comes as a surprise to anyone here. Of course he would say anything to prevent his son's life from being ruined in a big way. Wouldn't you do the same for your kids?

I have avoided this thread precisely because that is my first instinct. Then I read the victim's statement and it might have been one of the most moving things I've ever read. Girly wept. Then I read Biden's open letter to her. Girly sobbed. I have not yet the father's statement and don't think I will. The rape that occurred behind the dumpster was nothing compared to the rapes to come. Victim has no memory of the first one but she sure as shit does for all the ones that came after that.

The statement in bold.... Exactly. Sad

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