Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
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15-05-2013, 11:04 AM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 08:56 AM)JAH Wrote:  Two cousins of mine grew up in the central valley of California. Down the street were a pair of brothers who were friends of these cousins who even in my youth (9 or 10) I very much distrusted. In the end one brother became a significant drug dealer in Stanislaus Co. (eventually murdered and chopped up by his then girlfriend) and the other became the lieutenant (or something) of the Sheriff's dept. in Stanislaus Co. in charge of drug enforcement.

I also knew several people, when I was forced into the reserves to avoid being drafted into the army with the possibility of being sent to Vietnam, who were cops. They were superficially decent people, I actually became quite friendly with one.

I am not sure if it is the job or nature but cops tend to treat non cops as something to be harmed. Consider the number of shots fired when some criminal (or not) is cornered. Consider how Christopher Dorner was dealt with.

Cops do indeed get away with murder.

The first question that comes to my mind is, which brother entered an immoral line of work?

I don't hesitate at the answer. The reason why is that a large portion of police work involves arresting people for victimless crimes. Drug dealers, on the other hand, offer a desired product to a voluntary market.

Where the confusion comes in is when someone points out the violence in drug dealing. Using that fact, they claim the police MUST arrest drug dealers and users (even when they're non violent) in order to control the inherent violence in the drug trade.

What this line of thought ignores, however, is the reason why the drug trade is violent. Obviously, the prohibition on drugs is the sole reason for the violence in the trade. After all we don't read many (any?) stories about consumer electronics dealers shooting one another up. We haven't heard that the mafia is trading in iPods.

In the end, it is cops who go out on the street and arrest the perpetrators of victimless crimes. It is cops who will shoot to death or bludgeon to death a man who, for whatever reason, refuses their demands of strict obedience.

People who are capable of violence against the innocent aren't created by a job. They are created in an environment of violence and control as children and they replicate that environment as adults.

We all replicate our childhood environments. When those environments are healthy, we become healthy adults who couldn't bear the thought of exercising physical force over another, innocent human being.

When our childhood environments are unhealthy, we create dissociative alters and we move the blame for the abuse we suffer to those alters and out of the hands of the actual abusers. This is a necessary and valid self defense mechanism children use because they have no choice but love their abusers... after all, the parent holds in his or her hands the very life of the child. If your parents hate you and don't feed you, you die. This mechanism is very similar to Stockholm's syndrome. In fact, it IS Stockholm's syndrome.

These poison containers are about as varied as our interests and they're all too often associated with our parent's poison containers. Sometimes they become blacks, if the child is white. Sometimes they become women, depending on the relationship the child had with the mother. Sometimes it's men, or priests, or drug users, or homeless people, or Jews as in late nineteenth and early twentieth century Germany and Austria.

And sometimes they become anyone and everyone who doesn't respect the arbitrary authority of a blue costume.

Like I mentioned with my cousin, I wasn't surprised to learn he had become a cop, because I know a good deal about his childhood. I don't know if he was a latent bed wetter but I have some vague recollection of him being so. I do know that he was given to setting fires and torturing animals. The latter I was involuntarily witness to on more than one occasion. Those are the criteria of the MacDonald triad and they're seldom absent in the histories of violent adults, sociopaths and psychopaths.

I haven't read a study to this effect but I posit that those criteria are met by a plurality of those who seek employment in law enforcement and the military. The latter to a lesser degree, owing to the heavily propagandized nature of military recruitment coupled with the ever increasing difficulty youths have in finding gainful employment.


Sorry for the long rant but in simple terms, it ain't the job that causes the violent behavior. Save the enforcement of victimless crimes, there is a real need for a lot of the work that police do. And there is nothing about the desire to see true justice that would cause a person to act out violently.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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15-05-2013, 11:14 AM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 10:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  And we can come up with dozens or hundreds of incidents where cops acted selflessly or heroically. All any of this demonstrates is that they are human.

Actually, that they are bipedal, hairless apes with a high functioning cognition is what proves they're human. Acting selflessly proves that one is capable of acting selflessly. And even that doesn't prove selflessness, because we can never really know the true motivations for human action. It really only proves the act happened.

Quote:A few stories don't prove shit.

It isn't a few stories. It's hundreds of incidents every day, ranging in severity from minor to death. We only find out about a tiny percentage of them.

Oh and, you forgot to answer my question in the other thread so I'll ask it again here.

How long have you advocated child abuse?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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15-05-2013, 11:21 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2013 11:34 AM by Chas.)
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 11:14 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 10:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  And we can come up with dozens or hundreds of incidents where cops acted selflessly or heroically. All any of this demonstrates is that they are human.

Actually, that they are bipedal, hairless apes with a high functioning cognition is what proves they're human. Acting selflessly proves that one is capable of acting selflessly. And even that doesn't prove selflessness, because we can never really know the true motivations for human action. It really only proves the act happened.

Quote:A few stories don't prove shit.

It isn't a few stories. It's hundreds of incidents every day, ranging in severity from minor to death. We only find out about a tiny percentage of them.

Oh and, you forgot to answer my question in the other thread so I'll ask it again here.

How long have you advocated child abuse?

Go fuck yourself. You are an ideologically blinded dolt who, by his own admission, does not do anything politically to change the system. All you do is carp, whine, and complain.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-05-2013, 03:09 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 11:14 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  It isn't a few stories. It's hundreds of incidents every day, ranging in severity from minor to death. We only find out about a tiny percentage of them.

The fact that you say that shows you are automatically believing all allegations against cops over the cop's defences.

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15-05-2013, 03:44 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 03:09 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 11:14 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  It isn't a few stories. It's hundreds of incidents every day, ranging in severity from minor to death. We only find out about a tiny percentage of them.

The fact that you say that shows you are automatically believing all allegations against cops over the cop's defences.

It in no way shows that. Saying I automatically believe all allegations against cops, over their defenses, would show that. I never once said any such thing.

In the excerpt you cited, I am stating that abuses occur every day, many of which we never learn about.

Do you agree or disagree that cops commit abuses against citizens every day?

If not, what evidence do you have to support that assertion?

And if you want to have a discussion about the number of false claims of abuse there are, I'm perfectly happy to oblige and I think it would be interesting. But first let's establish that we can have such a conversation from an empirical position rather than an emotional one.

Step one would be reading what I said and taking it as what I said rather than what you want me to have said. The next step would be to ask me to clarify if something I write is unclear, as opposed to sniping my words. Smile

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15-05-2013, 03:50 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 03:44 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  It in no way shows that. Saying I automatically believe all allegations against cops, over their defenses, would show that. I never once said any such thing.

In the excerpt you cited, I am stating that abuses occur every day, many of which we never learn about.

Do you agree or disagree that cops commit abuses against citizens every day?

If not, what evidence do you have to support that assertion?

And if you want to have a discussion about the number of false claims of abuse there are, I'm perfectly happy to oblige and I think it would be interesting. But first let's establish that we can have such a conversation from an empirical position rather than an emotional one.

Step one would be reading what I said and taking it as what I said rather than what you want me to have said. The next step would be to ask me to clarify if something I write is unclear, as opposed to sniping my words. Smile

I doubt there are hundreds of incidents of cops being corrupt everyday, it sounds like an exaggeration to me.

If you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it.

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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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15-05-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
My friend's husband is a cop in San Francisco. He is quick to say there are good ones and horrible ones he wouldn't trust to watch their house.


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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15-05-2013, 04:31 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 04:14 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  My friend's husband is a cop in San Francisco. He is quick to say there are good ones and horrible ones he wouldn't trust to watch their house.

I'd be quick to agree with him. And I would also add that that statement is applicable to all humans, not just cops.

The problem isn't that there are good cops and bad cops. The problem is that they have a right to shoot people who don't have a right to shoot back. And they have an obligation to use force against the innocent.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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15-05-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 04:31 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 04:14 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  My friend's husband is a cop in San Francisco. He is quick to say there are good ones and horrible ones he wouldn't trust to watch their house.

I'd be quick to agree with him. And I would also add that that statement is applicable to all humans, not just cops.

The problem isn't that there are good cops and bad cops. The problem is that they have a right to shoot people who don't have a right to shoot back. And they have an obligation to use force against the innocent.

He seemed to think most of what he felt were truly just bad cops were really afraid. He doesn't understand why those types would bother becoming cops to begin with. But he's also quick to point out cops are needed, so those traits are often overlooked.


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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15-05-2013, 04:52 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(15-05-2013 04:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 04:31 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I'd be quick to agree with him. And I would also add that that statement is applicable to all humans, not just cops.

The problem isn't that there are good cops and bad cops. The problem is that they have a right to shoot people who don't have a right to shoot back. And they have an obligation to use force against the innocent.

He seemed to think most of what he felt were truly just bad cops were really afraid. He doesn't understand why those types would bother becoming cops to begin with. But he's also quick to point out cops are needed, so those traits are often overlooked.

I'm sure a lot of them are afraid. But afraid of what? I don't think he and I would agree on that answer.

And the reason we need cops is the reason we have bad ones.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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