Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-05-2013, 08:57 AM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
I personally don't think we should judge anyone for their character until we are put into that exact situation. how are we to know exactly what happened or what was going through their head? Are we psychic?

I have had my life saved by a LEO more then once, So I feel that they are necessary, you are entitled to your own opinion, but broad generalizations are not conducive to your argument.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-05-2013, 09:00 AM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
One evening I stopped at the "Would you Believe" on Geary. I ran into a San Francisco cop who happened to be a friend (the "Would you Believe" was then a cop bar). He suggested that we should go to dinner, I agreed. He was quite drunk already so he left his off duty pistol with the bartender. I was taking the bus as usual so he drove us to the Marina. He had a get out of jail free pass so him driving was not an issue. He was not just drunk he was almost passing out drunk, in the end I wanted very much to get home safely. But, he was a cop in the City he could drive because he could get away with it. I do not know how it ended because I was a little drunk also. I did get home.

Cops (some) think they can do anything and get away with it, they are after all cops.

"Stop the Draft Week" Oakland CA 1967 facing down a line of cops on the street and with no obvious signal they are running at us. You know if they catch up to you, you will be beaten, so you run. A young women decides to take refuge in a stores doorway. You know this is a mistake so you briefly stop then realize that if you try to protect her you will also be beaten so you run away. Carry that memory for almost 50 years.

Some form of social control is necessary. The violence that US cops commit against their fellow citizens is not necessary and should be condemned.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-05-2013, 11:10 AM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(16-05-2013 08:57 AM)Likos02 Wrote:  I personally don't think we should judge anyone for their character until we are put into that exact situation. how are we to know exactly what happened or what was going through their head? Are we psychic?

I have had my life saved by a LEO more then once, So I feel that they are necessary, you are entitled to your own opinion, but broad generalizations are not conducive to your argument.

I don't think I'd have to rape and murder twenty people to make an accurate assessment of the character of a serial killer. And I don't think I'd have to have been a victim to make that assessment.

Just as we know the properties of matter through scientific examination of evidence, we know the properties of personalities. The only difference is that the human brain is subject to billions of sensory inputs over a lifetime and any number of them can affect the person in a variety of ways... often depending upon other inputs. This means that we can't create a periodic table of objective personalities. But it does not mean that we can't look at significant life events and follow those life events to specific conclusions, repeatedly and and arrive at accurate conclusions. Not 100% accuracy, mind you, but then math is the only thing that enjoys that possibility.

So yes, we can absolutely say that most cops have certain personality traits.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-05-2013, 11:18 AM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
"So yes, we can absolutely say that most cops have certain personality traits."

Are you a cop? Have you had someone come at you with a knife with intent to kill you? Have you had to chase a drug dealer through an alleyway? Have you had someone blow through a red light at 110 MPH narrowly missing a mini-van with 4 children inside? Have you had to respond to a rape/murder and be a first responder to see a mutilated body?

If you can answer yes to these questions, then by all means, judge cops however you want. But until then, please refrain from cutting an entire career from one cookie cutter molding. Not all cops are corrupt, in fact most aren't...but like someone else in the thread before me said, a few ruin the perception for all.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-05-2013, 11:19 AM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
Also, we are talking about Law enforcement officers, not serial killers. Please don't strawman.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-05-2013, 11:53 AM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(16-05-2013 11:19 AM)Likos02 Wrote:  Also, we are talking about Law enforcement officers, not serial killers. Please don't strawman.

We're talking about human beings. Serial killers and cops both have personalities. And not because you think I don't like cops. Because they are human beings.

As I said before, no one has to have been in a given situation to make an accurate assessment of personality structure.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-05-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
You can make an assessment, but it will most likely not be accurate. Until we are placed in a high stress environment like that, which, by your defensive stature towards not having to experience it, you haven't, we have no idea as to the thought process these LEO's are experiencing. Maybe a co-worker was recently killed in the line of duty...the point is that we have no idea what these LEO's are experiencing, and as we weren't there, we shouldn't judge their character because of one event.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-05-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
I have never had a good run in with a cop. I've been stopped many times and they have always been a cunt to me, I don't know why, but once they start on me, I start on them. Fair is fair. I've had cops make up laws to try and get me to let them search my bag, fuck those guys. I do understand that there are plenty of good cops out there, but I've never been met one, so I'll remain wary of them.

Power corrupts, bitches. Power also corrupts bitches.

[Image: opforum1.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-05-2013, 06:31 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
(16-05-2013 12:11 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  You can make an assessment, but it will most likely not be accurate. Until we are placed in a high stress environment like that, which, by your defensive stature towards not having to experience it, you haven't, we have no idea as to the thought process these LEO's are experiencing. Maybe a co-worker was recently killed in the line of duty...the point is that we have no idea what these LEO's are experiencing, and as we weren't there, we shouldn't judge their character because of one event.

So if we apply your logic consistently, a doctor cannot diagnose cancer unless he has had cancer. And a plumber cannot diagnose a leaky faucet unless he has had a leaky faucet in his house.

Psychology is a science. There are known, demonstrable, repeatable and physically detectable components to mental instability. We know the major childhood traumas that cause sociopathy. We also know that the law enforcement industry includes a higher percentage of individuals who display sociopathic traits. And we know that the instances of domestic violence and divorce are much higher in the law enforcement industry than in any other.

We know all of these things. And further, we know that sociopaths aren't made at twenty. These men and women who have mental instabilities and who become LEOs do so because they are prone to violence. They are attracted to that industry because of its inherent authoritative nature and some of them abuse that authority.

Those are all empirically verifiable facts. They're not cop bashing propaganda or hate speech from someone who had a bad experience with a cop. It's simply the truth.

And because it is the truth, it needs to be addressed. I'm not saying cops should all be hated and if you've read this entire thread, you'll see that one of the first things I mentioned was that I don't hate cops. To borrow a phrase from the Christians... I hate the sin, not the sinner.

These violent cops, like serial killers or the petty drug users they arrest, are thee products of child abuse and they deserve as much compassion as Chinese woman who had her feet bound as a child.... because it's not their fault.

That said, we don't allow petty drug users a free pass when they harm someone to get their fix and I, at least, will not hand out a free pass to a cop who beats an innocent man to death with a club. I don't care if earlier that day he saved a thousand puppies from certain death. That doesn't matter. What matters is a human being attacked and killed another human being. If I do that, it's called murder. When a cop does it, it's called the stresses of the job.

You can make up excuses and twist moral rules around to justify these acts to whatever degree you have to but in the end, murder is evil and immoral... regardless of who does it or who they do it to.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2013, 02:37 PM
RE: Father of Four Bludgeoned to Death by Gang of Thugs
Oddly it is hard to find accurate statistics. What I did find was a list of on duty deaths of US police officers from 2012 that indicated that of 120 only 70 were related to civilian violence (there was 1 related to 9-11 exposure and 3 related to "duty related illness"). For that same year I found that 583 civilians were killed by law enforcement officers.

http://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kil...tates_2012

As is obvious a clear understanding of these numbers is not possible from the sources I found. What is clear is a non police person is much more likely to be killed by the police than the other way around. It is also clear to anyone who pays attention that no matter how clear the visual evidence little disipline will fall to the police. I recently read where officers involved in the Rodney King beating have been elevated to supervisory positions in the LAPD. I believe this article was written about the Christopher Dorner rampage. An unfortunate set of acts but understandable taken in context.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JAH's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: