Fatphobia?
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21-01-2014, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2014 03:34 PM by WitchSabrina.)
RE: Fatphobia?
(21-01-2014 02:46 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 01:12 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  my point was people who only have $200 to spend on groceries for the week for a family of 4-5, cannot afford grapes at 3.99 lb. Fresh fruit, fresh veggies, fish and lean meats are a heck of a lot more expensive, than processed, canned and fattier cuts.

boneless skinless Chicken breasts - 3.99 lb.
boneless, skinless chicken thighs - 3.49 lb
bone in, skin on chicken thighs - .99 lb.

which one you going to chose if you have a very limited budget and more mouths to feed than yourself?

Its not just about willpower. Its also about access to nutritious foods, and education about what is nutritious.

Thats great for your brother - but he doesn't represent the population of morbidly obese.

So because the cheap chicken has skin (the same stuff I buy), youre gonna eat the skin? Just because you get 3-4x more food for the same price doesn't mean you have to eat 3-4x as much... You dont eat the chicken bones, do ya?

There is a guy here at work who lives on very little grocery money and eats incredibly healthy. You dont need to buy a shitload of fresh veggies. The frozen stuff is cheaper, keeps a long time, and you aren't going to wake up weighing 300lbs after eating a bag of frozen veggies. Ive been through the states... You have way more access to cheap and healthy food than we do even just north of the border. Our dollar is similar, yet we pay like 50% more up here.

I will admit that those who have no access to the internet or a library or someone who has knowledge about nutrition might not make nutritious choices... But that is hardly anybody.

Buy on sale and in bulk. Buy frozen. Buy fresh when feasable. Supplement with multivitamins. Instead of spending X amount for 2500 calories a day with low nutritional value. Spend that same amount on 1800 calories a day with a higher nutritional value.

If a poor family is overweight, they're eating too many calories. Too much food. If eating less of this cheap food means they dont get enough nutrients, well... If you spend the same amount for less food, you can get more nutritious food. I'm not saying everyone has the means to eat healthy. But without a doubt, the "poor" people who are overweight are eating too many calories and CAN eat less with more nutrients for the same total cost.

The skinny poor people are the ones who may not have a choice.



We actually found that organic, free range chicken - although more expensive to buy at the onset - shrinks far less and feeds a lot more people. Sure it's a $9.00 package at the store as opposed to the $7.00 package at the store --- but it really does make 2 meals instead of one.
The problem is for many people they simply have the $7.00 and not the $9.00.

What you say makes perfect sense. Takes a while to get over that hump and start to shop more carefully and gain a bigger nutritional bang for the buck. If people knew that they could make that first stride with an additional $50 or so.........and then the shift would work for them --- right?
But it took us a bit to make that nutritional change and it was purely economical. Actually we budgeted for a few weeks so we could make that higher food trip and get started. Once the gears were in place and there were no Doritos and crap in the grocery cart we noticed we weren't as hungry, our food cravings took a back seat and all the wheels started turning in the right direction.

It's also very good for people to figure out *what* food works for them. My husband doesn't have celiac disease but he proved to be gluten intolerant. We watched his health improve and watches the pounds fall off him once he went gluten free. I, on the other hand, actually NEED some gluten or I turn into a stick figure with boobs. Not pretty. So getting a handle on your body type and what your intake of food (I hate the word diet) should be........ then you do whatever it takes (like budget) to make it come true.

So - yes our food bill went up another $40 a week or so to cater to our food needs but we're healthier - no doctor trips and we're not burning through bottles of Motrin and such; we Feel better and quality of life improved so much it's unbelievable. I have become a firm believer that YES you ARE what you eat.

PS.............we've had NO fast food in over 3 years. Bye Bye McDonalds and such - BYE! We love pizza but we make our own now (that allowed more $$$ at the grocery store AND improved our health)

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21-01-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
I think the money side of it has valid truths too it. However, I think I'm probably best at the moment to comment on this situation because I'm poor as fuck and can't afford the food I'd like.
You can certainly go healthy on a budget. A packet of frozen wedges (chips) or fries costs the same as a packet of frozen mixed veg. So get the veg instead.
You can get big packets of sausages really cheap. And potatoes are always cheap.
2 sausages, a healping of mixed veg and some potato. That's a cheap healthy meal.
The sausages may be a little unhealthy (especially the cheap ones) but then it's just a matter of portions. 2 instead of 3 sort of thing.

And you can't tell me that buying take away food every night for dinner is due to lack of money... That shit's expensive as hell.
I can have subway/kfc/noodle canteen for $10 for 1 meal. Or I can get frozen veg, meat etc.. for $10 for 2 or 3 meals.

I think it's 100% a life style choice. Well, maybe 99%, 1% medical.

Oh and just to clarify, when I'm talking fat I'm not talking slightly podgy, I'm talking fat fat, like the fat you see on the Biggest Loser.
I don't believe anyone gets that big simply because of a mad metabolism or because they're poor. That's poor lifestyle.

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21-01-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
(21-01-2014 01:37 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 01:12 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  my point was people who only have $200 to spend on groceries for the week for a family of 4-5, cannot afford grapes at 3.99 lb. Fresh fruit, fresh veggies, fish and lean meats are a heck of a lot more expensive, than processed, canned and fattier cuts.

boneless skinless Chicken breasts - 3.99 lb.
boneless, skinless chicken thighs - 3.49 lb
bone in, skin on chicken thighs - .99 lb.

which one you going to chose if you have a very limited budget and more mouths to feed than yourself?

Its not just about willpower. Its also about access to nutritious foods, and education about what is nutritious.

Thats great for your brother - but he doesn't represent the population of morbidly obese.
I gained the most weight I've ever weighed when we were broke and eating rice and beans 3x a day 7 days a week. You can't get cheaper than rice and beans but it's a ridiculously large amount of carbs.
Your brother's is quite amazing to me. Your whole "fat lazy stoner" ideal of obesity is completely off base. For every fat lazy stoner there are thousands of people with real health problems that slowly lead them into obesity and no matter how hard they try they cannot get out. Obesity is a serious health issue that needs to be addressed through educations and healthy food options.

Rice and beans is actually a cheap source of complete protein. Its better to have more beans than rice though as they contain better complex carbs, fiber and nutritional value and supply 7 of the 9 required amino acids. The rice is simply to supliment the remaining aminos. The same can be done with bread or whole wheats in place of rice. Complete protein sources are meats, soy beans, and quinoa... Which can be expensive.

Now, if you were eating enough rice and beans to gain weight, consider eating less of those (which keep a long time anyway) and spending the money saved elsewhere; things you won't get from rice and beans.

Eating excess calories leads to a larger body. Larger bodies require more calories and nutrients to sustain. If you weigh less, you need less calories and nutrients to sustain. Gaining weight on excess calories is like adding rooms to a house but not adding more furniture or being able to afford the heating bill...
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21-01-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
(21-01-2014 03:44 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 01:37 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I gained the most weight I've ever weighed when we were broke and eating rice and beans 3x a day 7 days a week. You can't get cheaper than rice and beans but it's a ridiculously large amount of carbs.
Your brother's is quite amazing to me. Your whole "fat lazy stoner" ideal of obesity is completely off base. For every fat lazy stoner there are thousands of people with real health problems that slowly lead them into obesity and no matter how hard they try they cannot get out. Obesity is a serious health issue that needs to be addressed through educations and healthy food options.

Rice and beans is actually a cheap source of complete protein. Its better to have more beans than rice though as they contain better complex carbs, fiber and nutritional value and supply 7 of the 9 required amino acids. The rice is simply to supliment the remaining aminos. The same can be done with bread or whole wheats in place of rice. Complete protein sources are meats, soy beans, and quinoa... Which can be expensive.

Now, if you were eating enough rice and beans to gain weight, consider eating less of those (which keep a long time anyway) and spending the money saved elsewhere; things you won't get from rice and beans.

Eating excess calories leads to a larger body. Larger bodies require more calories and nutrients to sustain. If you weigh less, you need less calories and nutrients to sustain. Gaining weight on excess calories is like adding rooms to a house but not adding more furniture or being able to afford the heating bill...


Quiona
with sauteed fresh chopped veggies.........
toss together.

You can make enough at the beginning of the week so all you have to do is zap in the microwave. Nothing easier, cheaper and healthier. Nothing.

You can even make breakfast Quiona
cook as normal
add butter or butter substitute and add maple agave. Agave is calorie free, all natural. If you need additonal energy - add some honey. Heat and serve.
Again you can make a whole batch at the beginning of the week so all you have to do is zap quick in the microwave.

Quiona is basically tasteless - so you can turn it into ANYthing you wish.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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21-01-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
(21-01-2014 03:49 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 03:44 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  Rice and beans is actually a cheap source of complete protein. Its better to have more beans than rice though as they contain better complex carbs, fiber and nutritional value and supply 7 of the 9 required amino acids. The rice is simply to supliment the remaining aminos. The same can be done with bread or whole wheats in place of rice. Complete protein sources are meats, soy beans, and quinoa... Which can be expensive.

Now, if you were eating enough rice and beans to gain weight, consider eating less of those (which keep a long time anyway) and spending the money saved elsewhere; things you won't get from rice and beans.

Eating excess calories leads to a larger body. Larger bodies require more calories and nutrients to sustain. If you weigh less, you need less calories and nutrients to sustain. Gaining weight on excess calories is like adding rooms to a house but not adding more furniture or being able to afford the heating bill...


Quiona
with sauteed fresh chopped veggies.........
toss together.

You can make enough at the beginning of the week so all you have to do is zap in the microwave. Nothing easier, cheaper and healthier. Nothing.

You can even make breakfast Quiona
cook as normal
add butter or butter substitute and add maple agave. Agave is calorie free, all natural. If you need additonal energy - add some honey. Heat and serve.
Again you can make a whole batch at the beginning of the week so all you have to do is zap quick in the microwave.

Quiona is basically tasteless - so you can turn it into ANYthing you wish.

The first thing you mentioned is something I see this guy at work eating all the time except with frozen veggies.

Quinoa is a little expensive but is much more balanced and nutrient dense than rice, and provides complete proteins.

Also, agave nectar isnt calorie free. It doesn't spike insulin like sugar does. So its healthier for everybody, but especially diabetics. Its like honey, but doesn't impact food taste as much as honey.

An actual calorie free natural sweetener would be stevia, which I find kinda gross.
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21-01-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
(21-01-2014 03:16 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  The whole idea that people are fat because they are poor seems ridiculous to me.

Wouldn't that logic suggest that poor countries are filled with obese people? I can tell you that's not the case where I live.

And what about rich fat people?


Slow - I certainly didn't mean to imply that ALL poor people are fat, or ONLY fat people are poor. You cannot deny the correlation.


"The link between obesity, inactivity, and poverty may be too costly to ignore because obesity-associated chronic disease already accounts for 70% of U.S. health costs. For instance, counties with greatest rates of poverty have greatest diabetes rates too (Fig. 1D). In 2009, 27% of people living in the U.S. with annual household outcomes below $25,000 were uninsured (no private or government health insurance). This cohort represents, 15,483,000 people, ~5 million with obesity and ~1 million with diabetes (10). With expanded health care provision in the U.S., the potential incremental health care costs of diabetes alone for these individuals approximates $9 billion/year, or $9,000 per new diabetes patient/year (11). There are, however, additional economic factors that may impact the cost-return equation, for instance, 1) potential savings associated with diabetes prevention, 2) the opportunity to develop and deliver high-quality and low-cost diabetes care to poverty-dense communities, 3) the health cost savings associated with the prevention of diabetes complications in patients with diabetes, and 4) the potential lost tax revenues associated with disability (12). Add these figures to the health care costs of other chronic obesity-associated diagnoses such as hypertension, hyperlipidemia, sleep disorders, arthritis, cardiovascular disease, and asthma and the projected health care costs of poverty increase."

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21-01-2014, 04:29 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
(21-01-2014 04:00 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 03:49 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Quiona
with sauteed fresh chopped veggies.........
toss together.

You can make enough at the beginning of the week so all you have to do is zap in the microwave. Nothing easier, cheaper and healthier. Nothing.

You can even make breakfast Quiona
cook as normal
add butter or butter substitute and add maple agave. Agave is calorie free, all natural. If you need additonal energy - add some honey. Heat and serve.
Again you can make a whole batch at the beginning of the week so all you have to do is zap quick in the microwave.

Quiona is basically tasteless - so you can turn it into ANYthing you wish.

The first thing you mentioned is something I see this guy at work eating all the time except with frozen veggies.

Quinoa is a little expensive but is much more balanced and nutrient dense than rice, and provides complete proteins.

Also, agave nectar isnt calorie free. It doesn't spike insulin like sugar does. So its healthier for everybody, but especially diabetics. Its like honey, but doesn't impact food taste as much as honey.

An actual calorie free natural sweetener would be stevia, which I find kinda gross.

We use Truvia. Taste good (to me) and I'm a sugar Freak. lol
Jim uses Truvia alone and I use a Truvia blend - 1/2 with raw sugar. I need the additional calories (he doesn't). But I need the sort of sugar which won't give me health issues. Which is why we read ALL labels.
The agave we buy is calorie free - must be a particular brand. We were looking for calorie free items which still had Good flavor when Jim was first starting out. Most of these sort of condiments were *investments* in order to change the cabinet we work from while cooking. The Maple Agave we buy is expensive - but you need only a little to get the job done And I buy it like twice a year.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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21-01-2014, 04:38 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
(21-01-2014 03:49 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 03:44 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  Rice and beans is actually a cheap source of complete protein. Its better to have more beans than rice though as they contain better complex carbs, fiber and nutritional value and supply 7 of the 9 required amino acids. The rice is simply to supliment the remaining aminos. The same can be done with bread or whole wheats in place of rice. Complete protein sources are meats, soy beans, and quinoa... Which can be expensive.

Now, if you were eating enough rice and beans to gain weight, consider eating less of those (which keep a long time anyway) and spending the money saved elsewhere; things you won't get from rice and beans.

Eating excess calories leads to a larger body. Larger bodies require more calories and nutrients to sustain. If you weigh less, you need less calories and nutrients to sustain. Gaining weight on excess calories is like adding rooms to a house but not adding more furniture or being able to afford the heating bill...


Quiona
with sauteed fresh chopped veggies.........
toss together.

You can make enough at the beginning of the week so all you have to do is zap in the microwave. Nothing easier, cheaper and healthier. Nothing.

You can even make breakfast Quiona
cook as normal
add butter or butter substitute and add maple agave. Agave is calorie free, all natural. If you need additonal energy - add some honey. Heat and serve.
Again you can make a whole batch at the beginning of the week so all you have to do is zap quick in the microwave.

Quiona is basically tasteless - so you can turn it into ANYthing you wish.

My daughters baby food has that in it. I never knew what it was. Yea rice and beans isn't very filling. Add that to being poor is depressing and I got fat. Oh well it's in the past now. I didn't have any illness that prevented me from being active, I didn't have much of an excuse, but many people do. My mother for example has fibromyalgia, it has been getting worse over the years and she has been gaining weight because of it. She's not obese, well I don't think she is. She's 5'7" size 14/16.

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21-01-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
(21-01-2014 03:44 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 01:37 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I gained the most weight I've ever weighed when we were broke and eating rice and beans 3x a day 7 days a week. You can't get cheaper than rice and beans but it's a ridiculously large amount of carbs.
Your brother's is quite amazing to me. Your whole "fat lazy stoner" ideal of obesity is completely off base. For every fat lazy stoner there are thousands of people with real health problems that slowly lead them into obesity and no matter how hard they try they cannot get out. Obesity is a serious health issue that needs to be addressed through educations and healthy food options.

Rice and beans is actually a cheap source of complete protein. Its better to have more beans than rice though as they contain better complex carbs, fiber and nutritional value and supply 7 of the 9 required amino acids. The rice is simply to supliment the remaining aminos. The same can be done with bread or whole wheats in place of rice. Complete protein sources are meats, soy beans, and quinoa... Which can be expensive.

Now, if you were eating enough rice and beans to gain weight, consider eating less of those (which keep a long time anyway) and spending the money saved elsewhere; things you won't get from rice and beans.

Eating excess calories leads to a larger body. Larger bodies require more calories and nutrients to sustain. If you weigh less, you need less calories and nutrients to sustain. Gaining weight on excess calories is like adding rooms to a house but not adding more furniture or being able to afford the heating bill...

Do you know how small a cup of rice actually is, and how little that sustains you nutritionally for 5 hours?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/opinion/gr...ty-health/

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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21-01-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: Fatphobia?
I don't agree with discrimination against obese people, but I do strongly feel like "fat shaming" is largely a defense mechanism, and not an actual issue (much of the time).

I think increasing health education is very very important. And there is not a single bad thing about describing what it means to be healthy and how to be healthy, especially to children who need that structure. However I constantly hear those words, "fat shaming" when health is trying to be promoted. As if trying to be healthy is an insult. No, that's effing stupid.

I love any ads promoting health whether it be in nutrition or exercise. Maria Kang? Effing loved that girl. I mean damn, she did nearly the impossible, why hate on her? IMO she is inspirational. But she was immediately called out as a "fat shamer" just for showing that she was able to create the body that SHE wants after having 3 children. More power to her for achieving that.

Rambling again, but TL;DR, promoting health is too often seen as fat shaming. And that ish needs to stop because in the U.S. (and in much of the world) we are in a freakin pandemic of obesity. And it takes knowledge and effort to fight it. And I hate to see what should be inspiration/education labeled as fat shaming.

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