Favorite talking points
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11-06-2016, 07:16 PM
Favorite talking points
I was just wondering what y'alls favorite subjects are when you're talking to Christians or Creationist in general. My Christian fiance recently has been trying to debate me on science (which usually just involves her showing me a video or article to do her talking for her). But I feel that talking about that is kind of pointless because neither of us are scientist nor do we really have a very deep understanding of science, though mine is slightly better than hers. Also Christians are taught in most circles to distrust any science that conflicts with the Bible. If you read any article from Creation Ministries or Answers in Genesis they always make some mention about how you shouldn't trust the reasoning of man and instead trust in the infallible word of God. So it's almost pointless to talk to people about science if they don't trust it.

I prefer to focus instead on the Bible and the God therein. Mostly pointing out flaws with his supposed omniscience and omnibenevolence. Mostly because that's what initially converted me. Also I find that many people don't have a good answer when it comes to these questions. I feel it's much more important to show that the Bible is flawed because it opens people to other arguments against Creationism. Though my current number of converts is zero I hope to actually put this idea into practice starting with my fiancé.

What about you guys? What are your favorite things to talk about when debating religious people?
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11-06-2016, 07:30 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
(11-06-2016 07:16 PM)Dlrichardson94 Wrote:  I was just wondering what y'alls favorite subjects are when you're talking to Christians or Creationist in general. My Christian fiance recently has been trying to debate me on science (which usually just involves her showing me a video or article to do her talking for her). But I feel that talking about that is kind of pointless because neither of us are scientist nor do we really have a very deep understanding of science, though mine is slightly better than hers. Also Christians are taught in most circles to distrust any science that conflicts with the Bible. If you read any article from Creation Ministries or Answers in Genesis they always make some mention about how you shouldn't trust the reasoning of man and instead trust in the infallible word of God. So it's almost pointless to talk to people about science if they don't trust it.

I prefer to focus instead on the Bible and the God therein. Mostly pointing out flaws with his supposed omniscience and omnibenevolence. Mostly because that's what initially converted me. Also I find that many people don't have a good answer when it comes to these questions. I feel it's much more important to show that the Bible is flawed because it opens people to other arguments against Creationism. Though my current number of converts is zero I hope to actually put this idea into practice starting with my fiancé.

What about you guys? What are your favorite things to talk about when debating religious people?

God is not evil, he does not exist.
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11-06-2016, 07:31 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
Good point
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11-06-2016, 08:53 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
I like to start with basic questions of epistemology. At what point are we justified in saying that we "know" something? What are good (reliable) methods of coming to know things, and what methods are demonstrably piss-poor at leading to the truth? It's pretty easy to demonstrate that faith and holy texts are the latter.
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11-06-2016, 08:55 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
Quote:they always make some mention about how you shouldn't trust the reasoning of man and instead trust in the infallible word of God.

And I should trust the reasoning of man on that. Consider

Quote:So it's almost pointless to talk to people about science if they don't trust it.

Pretty much. I really would like to see a faith-based rocket launch though.

Quote:Though my current number of converts is zero I hope to actually put this idea into practice starting with my fiancé.

You don't convert people, they convert themselves.

Also, it seems to me that you don't love your fiance for who she is. I can understand why you might want her to believe something else but that doesn't exactly bode well for your relationship. Either you respect who she is or you can try and change her. You can't easily have both.

Might want to take this part of the discussion over to Personal Issues and Support. There are Rules about not pouncing on people there that the debate section lacks.

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11-06-2016, 09:12 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
Normally I avoid reading AiG or any of its ilk. I like my brain cells too much to do that to them.

As for topics, typically I let the believer bring it up. There isn't a proof that God exists that has any more integrity than wet tissue paper or none of us would be here. In the end it all boils down to a matter of faith, which is just code for "please stop asking inconvenient questions."

On the scientific side there are a host of good arguments. The evidence for common descent is so conclusive that the only people who haven't accepted it are the ones with their finger wedged in their ears humming really loudly. My favorite at the moment is the evidence from the ERV. It's very hard to weasle your way out of that one.

On the theological side there's the idiocy of the flood (soft target), the lie of original sin (funny how it was the serpent telling the truth in that tail) and the nonsense of the crucifiction where god rents himself to himself cheap for the weekend to pay for man's sin then condems us all to eternal torment if we don't buy it.

Browse through the threads here and the Creationist section. There are a few good debates in the Collosseum too. You'll find lots of material.

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12-06-2016, 01:34 AM
RE: Favorite talking points
I did sorta convert my husband but I wasn't intentionality trying too. I love research and I have insomnia real bad so I stay up after work and do research. The next day or when my husband and I talk I'd tell him about the stuff I was researching. He slowly started seeing religion for what it is, bullshit. However he still believes there is some kind if superior being out there.

I wasn't pointing these things out to convert him persay I would just casually talk to him because I found it fascinating.

As far as others I let them being it up, I have a couple of reasons 1, if they bring it up they want answers even if they think they want to convert you, 2 I can dubunk what they said and u normally try to use the bible since it can destroy its self and its hard to get out of that. I do have lots of links and other information saved on my phone because I could never remember it all.
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12-06-2016, 03:17 AM
RE: Favorite talking points
(11-06-2016 09:12 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Normally I avoid reading AiG or any of its ilk. I like my brain cells too much to do that to them.

As for topics, typically I let the believer bring it up. There isn't a proof that God exists that has any more integrity than wet tissue paper or none of us would be here. In the end it all boils down to a matter of faith, which is just code for "please stop asking inconvenient questions."

On the scientific side there are a host of good arguments. The evidence for common descent is so conclusive that the only people who haven't accepted it are the ones with their finger wedged in their ears humming really loudly. My favorite at the moment is the evidence from the ERV. It's very hard to weasle your way out of that one.

On the theological side there's the idiocy of the flood (soft target), the lie of original sin (funny how it was the serpent telling the truth in that tail) and the nonsense of the crucifiction where god rents himself to himself cheap for the weekend to pay for man's sin then condems us all to eternal torment if we don't buy it.

Browse through the threads here and the Creationist section. There are a few good debates in the Collosseum too. You'll find lots of material.

When I was studying biochem in college, I would go to the computer lab to work on my various papers and other research, and would open the old Yahoo! Chat chatroom "Creationism vs. Evolution", where we were barraged by every AiG argument in the repertoire. I found that arguing against their arguments (which I had myself adopted for the first 17 years of my life) helped me to better-understand my actual biology lessons. Frankly, I owe AiG, at least in some respects, thanks for helping me to attain my degree.

Some of the arguments they make are better-sounding today than they were back in the late 90s and early 2000s, but only because they've worked very hard at sounding like they have legitimate credentials and publications (to those who don't actually know how science works), and taken down most of the parts of their arguments that can easily be disproved even before an audience of True Believers™. It's more about sounding reasonable than being reasonable, and giving TBs a way to shield themselves from some of the cognitive dissonance when presented by real science.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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12-06-2016, 05:21 AM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2016 05:27 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Favorite talking points
(11-06-2016 07:16 PM)Dlrichardson94 Wrote:  I was just wondering what y'alls favorite subjects are when you're talking to Christians or Creationist in general. My Christian fiance recently has been trying to debate me on science (which usually just involves her showing me a video or article to do her talking for her). But I feel that talking about that is kind of pointless because neither of us are scientist nor do we really have a very deep understanding of science, though mine is slightly better than hers. Also Christians are taught in most circles to distrust any science that conflicts with the Bible. If you read any article from Creation Ministries or Answers in Genesis they always make some mention about how you shouldn't trust the reasoning of man and instead trust in the infallible word of God. So it's almost pointless to talk to people about science if they don't trust it.

I prefer to focus instead on the Bible and the God therein. Mostly pointing out flaws with his supposed omniscience and omnibenevolence. Mostly because that's what initially converted me. Also I find that many people don't have a good answer when it comes to these questions. I feel it's much more important to show that the Bible is flawed because it opens people to other arguments against Creationism. Though my current number of converts is zero I hope to actually put this idea into practice starting with my fiancé.

What about you guys? What are your favorite things to talk about when debating religious people?

Tower of Babel, the apologism is rather thin in regards to this nutty story as well as evidence against it is pretty blatant.

The bible makes some very blatant mistakes in this story. The timeline of the city building lists in chapter 10 of Genesis of Asshur and Nimrod are blatantly false and directly contradicted by archeological evidence.

Read a funny story the other day, when Bugs Bunny was being pursued by Elmer Fudd, Bugs Bunny calls him Nimrod. This was a facetious reference to the biblical Nimrod who was "a mighty hunter".

Bugs Bunnie's derogatory term snuck into our culture to where we consider the name Nimrod synonymous with fool or idiot.

Bugs Bunny tarnished the name of a biblical character. Laugh out load

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-06-2016, 06:55 AM
RE: Favorite talking points
(11-06-2016 08:55 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
Quote:they always make some mention about how you shouldn't trust the reasoning of man and instead trust in the infallible word of God.

And I should trust the reasoning of man on that. Consider

That was the thing that jumped out at me. Your reasoning and understanding is all you can go by. If you decide to abandon your reasoning and go with god or anything else you are still trusting your reasoning that your reasoning isn't trustworthy.

It mirrors the arguments that god's objective nature is good and that man's subjective morals can't be trusted. They still have to be using their own sense of morality to judge their god.

Arguing with theists is like many amusement park rides; it is just circles within circles designed to get you so dizzy that you throw up.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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