Favorite talking points
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12-06-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Favorite talking points
noahs ark and the great flood. listening to christians try to defend that crap entertains me to no end. i enjoy the simple things in life.
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12-06-2016, 08:47 AM
RE: Favorite talking points
My favorite talking point is the reliability of science and why you can trust the process that gives us the base of knowledge that we have about the universe and everything that we use around us day in and day out.

Everything is product tested for safety and reliability using science. No company on the planet prays to a god to see if their products are safe or not. If a god exists, it doesn't care about your safety.

Any idea in science must be able to be verified by others doing independent tests. The peer review process is a gauntlet and other scientists abso-fucking-lutely love to rip anyone's ideas to shreds if they can.

Science must prove itself. It must support itself through the most rigorous of skeptics.

When you ask a scientist to show you the evidence, they can.
When you ask any religious person to show you evidence, they can't.

Simple as that.
I trust evidence.
I trust science.

I don't buy into bullshit.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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12-06-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
(12-06-2016 03:17 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 09:12 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Normally I avoid reading AiG or any of its ilk. I like my brain cells too much to do that to them.

As for topics, typically I let the believer bring it up. There isn't a proof that God exists that has any more integrity than wet tissue paper or none of us would be here. In the end it all boils down to a matter of faith, which is just code for "please stop asking inconvenient questions."

On the scientific side there are a host of good arguments. The evidence for common descent is so conclusive that the only people who haven't accepted it are the ones with their finger wedged in their ears humming really loudly. My favorite at the moment is the evidence from the ERV. It's very hard to weasle your way out of that one.

On the theological side there's the idiocy of the flood (soft target), the lie of original sin (funny how it was the serpent telling the truth in that tail) and the nonsense of the crucifiction where god rents himself to himself cheap for the weekend to pay for man's sin then condems us all to eternal torment if we don't buy it.

Browse through the threads here and the Creationist section. There are a few good debates in the Collosseum too. You'll find lots of material.

When I was studying biochem in college, I would go to the computer lab to work on my various papers and other research, and would open the old Yahoo! Chat chatroom "Creationism vs. Evolution", where we were barraged by every AiG argument in the repertoire. I found that arguing against their arguments (which I had myself adopted for the first 17 years of my life) helped me to better-understand my actual biology lessons. Frankly, I owe AiG, at least in some respects, thanks for helping me to attain my degree.

Some of the arguments they make are better-sounding today than they were back in the late 90s and early 2000s, but only because they've worked very hard at sounding like they have legitimate credentials and publications (to those who don't actually know how science works), and taken down most of the parts of their arguments that can easily be disproved even before an audience of True Believers™. It's more about sounding reasonable than being reasonable, and giving TBs a way to shield themselves from some of the cognitive dissonance when presented by real science.

I had a similar experience and learned more about biology and cosmology from shredding cretinist arguments than from most of my courses. I so miss "vapour canopy". I've had the misfortune to wander through a few of AiG's nuddles recently and can't say that they're greatly improved. A bit more pollished perhaps but they still destroy the world every time they try and figure out where the flood waters came from and went to.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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12-06-2016, 02:18 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
I'd read Jean-Paul Sartre's "Existentialism is a humanism" before going on to preach the gospel truth.
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12-06-2016, 03:09 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
I find myself discussing the paradox of a perfect God and the morality of the Bible vs. secular morality plus faith vs. evidence. Usually a simple refutation for a God myth is simply to ask about all the times in the Bible he was weak or limited in some way, for example freeing the Isrealites in Egypt but needing to harden the Pharaoh's heart and rain down plagues, he can create an entire universe through will alone but can't free some slaves without putting a bunch of innocent people through pain, suffering and finally the deaths of children? He is all knowing but still needed some blood painting on doors to know which kids to kill, yeah, makes sense.

Let's not forget about the big one, he couldn't just forgive us sinful jerks living our dumb mortal lives, he had to become mortal, do some magic tricks, and sacrifice himself to himself in a bloody tortuous way...and then we can still sin all we want! Yay for human sacrifice!

Also the morality thing I can be happy, productive, law abiding, empathetic and at peace with myself without your messiah, so why do I need him? Your Bible is full of one evil law or rule after the next, espousing the virtues of a psychopathic egomaniac who hates women and anyone who isn't in his tribe...or actually his tribe too when they ask too many questions, why is he worthy of worship again?

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12-06-2016, 03:20 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
(12-06-2016 06:55 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-06-2016 08:55 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  And I should trust the reasoning of man on that. Consider

That was the thing that jumped out at me. Your reasoning and understanding is all you can go by. If you decide to abandon your reasoning and go with god or anything else you are still trusting your reasoning that your reasoning isn't trustworthy.

It mirrors the arguments that god's objective nature is good and that man's subjective morals can't be trusted. They still have to be using their own sense of morality to judge their god.

Arguing with theists is like many amusement park rides; it is just circles within circles designed to get you so dizzy that you throw up.


Yeah you gotta love theists who bring up the flaws in logic and evidence, "How can you be sure? Can you trust your own senses? You could be dreaming right now! How do I know you even have a brain if I can't see it?" Because if I didn't have one I'd be dead on the ground right now, I can't live without a brain, but it seems you're doing just fine without one so touché.

Even if we agree, ok, what part of your flawed human brain is convincing you this book of fairy tales has it right but this other one doesn't? Can you prove your brain is capable of deciphering the truth from a fiction without any evidence that my brain can also except? If something is the truth, you don't need faith and "feelings in your heart" to believe it, all you need is evidence that my flawed dumb brain can understand. It's just that simple.

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12-06-2016, 04:09 PM
RE: Favorite talking points
"God's only excuse is
that he does not exist." ha
I have no excuse.
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