Favourite/Most used argument.
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21-01-2012, 03:41 AM
Favourite/Most used argument.
Hey guys, what's your favourite argument style when debating a theist?
Mine is, i get them to agree with a statement such as "do you believe that all people should be treated fairly and equally no matter race/nationality/gender/sexuality/religious belief?"
and they go yes as any rational person would, then i bombard them with
scriptures of the quran that incite intolerance and unequal treatment.
at this point i leave them with 2 options, they either realise that the quran
may be false, and so the seeds of doubt are planted or they contradict themselves and try to justify inequality.
sad to say most opt for the latter :/ so i cant really pride myself on it's effectiveness,
but i sure love to see them squirm and do the acrobatics
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Also it's sad to see that there is prevailing piece of prapaganda with most muslims
that they think Sharia law is secular and even argue for it, when i point that out to them
they change the subject and try to dodge.

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21-01-2012, 08:28 AM
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
Actually when I debate a Theist I find it far more effective to always let them have the first word and tell me what they think "spiritual" or "god" refer to.

I don't think it's fair or in good spirits to simply bombard them with the questions that we are not afraid to ask as non believers. Those simply are not important questions for those that are not in a place where they need answers to those questions yet.

When I engage a Theist I'm only worried about two things:

1. How are other people around us observing this exchange. How do I look to an outside observer?
2. Am I wanting the person I'm debating to engage with me on a full level. Am I just making them angry or frustrated by my actions?

personally I find arguments most fun when the answers to both of these questions reinforce my goals for that discussion. Smile
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21-01-2012, 08:57 AM
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
(21-01-2012 03:41 AM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  Hey guys, what's your favourite argument style when debating a theist?

Nice Jackrabbit. That looks most effective.

Here, I am dealing with mostly bible thumpers so I use a different approach.
When I want to really hold their feet to the fire, I use the Witch argument.
They RUN from that one every time.
I think it not only scares them, but they can't come up with any reasonable answer which makes them scurry for the nearest place to hide.
KC squirmed around it and avoided it here as all theist do.
It goes something like this.
The bible says that Witches and Demons exist.
It also says that we should kill them.
However, the bible gives NO method whatsoever on how one is supposed to determine who is and who is not a witch/demon.
I mean heck, that seems like a vital piece of the equation assuming that ones life is at stake. How is the judge supposed to determine guilt or innocence?
The logic tree goes like this.
Do witches and demons as described in the bible exist? Y/N
If Yes, what is the method to determine a witch from a non witch? (there isn't one)
If No, why perpetuate the myth? It gets people killed on a regular basis.
They can't be honest and deal with it so they run from it. Case closed.
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21-01-2012, 11:39 PM
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
I like to compare their religion to another similar religion, in order for them to see why their evidence is not compelling. "Prayer works!" a theist claims. So I show them a site where their religious opponents are also claiming that prayers to a different God work.

I think if a theist can stand outside of his or her religion and look at it with an unbiased eye, they'll find that it doesn't contain anything that makes it stand out from all the religions they see as "false". They'll see the same certainty and conviction they have in their own religion coming from believers who, even from their point-of-view, are worshiping a God that doesn't exist. They'll see the same strenuous defense of scriptures and teachings that are "holy and perfect" coming from people believing in obviously fake crap.

And my favorite comparison is Scientology, because it is not only a growing religion but one that, seen from the outside, is objectively silly. When you understand how people can believe in Scientology, you understand how you can also be fooled by a religion that isn't as far-fetched.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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23-01-2012, 10:02 PM
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
(21-01-2012 11:39 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I like to compare their religion to another similar religion, in order for them to see why their evidence is not compelling. ...
And my favorite comparison is Scientology, because it is not only a growing religion but one that, seen from the outside, is objectively silly. When you understand how people can believe in Scientology, you understand how you can also be fooled by a religion that isn't as far-fetched.

That is also a very good one.
If they can at all be objective, your point will have them rethinking their position pronto.
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23-01-2012, 11:02 PM
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
If dealing with Christians, I always, always bring up Noah's Ark. It's the story that planted the seeds of doubt during my Catholicism so it's only right that I debate the crap out of that one. I usually ask them how each step of the story was achieved then grant all of their "miracle" premises. My end question is why does an omnipotent, omniscient being need to help with all of these steps rather than just snapping her fingers to create her end goal?
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23-01-2012, 11:14 PM
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
I like to use the story of Job to show what a petty, twisted tyrant the God of the Old Testament is.

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24-01-2012, 01:23 AM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2012 01:27 AM by MasterRottweiler.)
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
Well, when I debate with a theist;

1.- I ask him/her to explain his/her belief.
2.- I try to eliminate any ambiguity by asking them to define the terms and words they are planning to use, equivocation fallacies are quite common when debating theists.
3.- I try to make the context of the debate clear to avoid non-sequiturs and ad-hoc excuses, most theists do that A LOT.
4.- I ask them to show where they get their information, if they cannot quote reliable sources then I cannot take them seriously.
5.- I ask them about their level of certainty; "Do you know or do you believe X claim is true?"
6.- And when all of the things above fail, then the debate is over and I'm not willing to waste my time debating with someone who does not want to debate in a rational way.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

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24-01-2012, 04:14 AM
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
(21-01-2012 03:41 AM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  Hey guys, what's your favourite argument style when debating a theist?
Mine is, i get them to agree with a statement such as "do you believe that all people should be treated fairly and equally no matter race/nationality/gender/sexuality/religious belief?"
and they go yes as any rational person would, then i bombard them with
scriptures of the quran that incite intolerance and unequal treatment.
at this point i leave them with 2 options, they either realise that the quran
may be false, and so the seeds of doubt are planted or they contradict themselves and try to justify inequality.
sad to say most opt for the latter :/ so i cant really pride myself on it's effectiveness,
but i sure love to see them squirm and do the acrobatics

Heh, Jackrabbit. Replace Quran for Bible and that is exactly my favourite argument.

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
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25-01-2012, 08:37 AM
RE: Favourite/Most used argument.
My favorite evidence is explaining and using links of information to show people how the bible was created. Initially it was just based on new testament forming but lately finding out the whole misguided origins of the Hebrew bible and how it was formed of neighboring God's pantheons and the evidence is in the bible when it uses the names of the other Gods.... That and surrounding detail depending on how much they disbelief or are interested I try and draw out.

On the other side, the argument of theists that makes me laugh the most has to be the, How can you look outside and see the tree's and not know God exists?!
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