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01-04-2013, 03:20 PM
Fb message
Imagine for instance a serial killer. Ill call him Bob. Bob goes out at night through the streets and targets young people and kills them. After a year he has killed over 3 dozen people. Eventually the police catch him. He is convicted by a judge and sentenced to life imprisonment. This is kinda similar to what happens between us, God, and hell. When God created the world, he made it perfect. But he gave man the ability, or free will, to obey him or disobey him. Adam disobeyed and mankind fell into sin. As a result, every single person sins. God, being holy and just, cannot allow sin to go unpunished. He created a standard, a perfect one, which spells damnation for anyone who disobeys. Since every single person disobeys, EVERY single person deserves to go to hell. That is the only way for God to be perfectly holy an just. Sin must be punished. But, when Jesus came, he took the place of sinners and took the punishment for the saints instead. Now that God's elect has been forgiven, they can enjoy heaven with him. Now you talked about (i think ;D ) that it isnt fair that people like Hitler could be in heaven and people like Gandhi in hell. And you know what, it is difficult for anyone to understand. How can someone so good in this life go to hell simply for unbelief and someone so evil get into heaven. It doesnt seem fair to us. But, if every single person deserves to go top hell and is damned, then it makes since. In fact, what doesnt make sense is to say that God let evil people and enemies of Himself get away with their sin. It would be unjust. But heres another thing. The Bible teaches that there is NOTHING that we can do on our own to get into heaven. Thats right, even BELIEVING that God exists and that Jesus is the messiah does not get you into heaven. It is part of it yes, but that alone is meaningless. The Bible says that demons believe and know that God exists and that Jesus is the messiah, but they are not going to heaven. Here is how it works. First of all, God chooses who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. This is one of the most difficult things that Christians today have believing. How could a loving God send people to hell? But, if everyone is destined to hell in the first place, then it is amazing mercy and love that God turned some people around. I'll admit, it is very difficult to understand. One of the things that I am currently having a hard time wrapping my brain around is people like Mother Teresa. According to the Bible, I dont think she is in heaven. THIS IS HARD!! How can she not be in heaven???? And you know what, we may not be able to understand it. But God is all powerful and perfect. He can do what he likes. After God chooses his elect, then, sometime in that persons life, God will turn him around and save him. From then on, that person is filled with the Spirit, whihc helps him become more godlike. That person develops a relationship with God. THIS is what make Christianity different. We do not get into heaven by following a bunch of rules or believing that Jesus is God. We have a special relationship with Him. Christianity is the only religion in the world where this is the case. So, to sum it all up, yes; hell is hard to understand. But it is necessary.

Thoughts on this?

"Invisible pink unicorns" and "Screaming blue ants" Matt Slick
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01-04-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: Fb message
(01-04-2013 03:20 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  Imagine for instance a serial killer. Ill call him Bob. Bob goes out at night through the streets and targets young people and kills them. After a year he has killed over 3 dozen people. Eventually the police catch him. He is convicted by a judge and sentenced to life imprisonment. This is kinda similar to what happens between us, God, and hell. When God created the world, he made it perfect. But he gave man the ability, or free will, to obey him or disobey him. Adam disobeyed and mankind fell into sin. As a result, every single person sins. God, being holy and just, cannot allow sin to go unpunished. He created a standard, a perfect one, which spells damnation for anyone who disobeys. Since every single person disobeys, EVERY single person deserves to go to hell. That is the only way for God to be perfectly holy an just. Sin must be punished. But, when Jesus came, he took the place of sinners and took the punishment for the saints instead. Now that God's elect has been forgiven, they can enjoy heaven with him. Now you talked about (i think ;D ) that it isnt fair that people like Hitler could be in heaven and people like Gandhi in hell. And you know what, it is difficult for anyone to understand. How can someone so good in this life go to hell simply for unbelief and someone so evil get into heaven. It doesnt seem fair to us. But, if every single person deserves to go top hell and is damned, then it makes since. In fact, what doesnt make sense is to say that God let evil people and enemies of Himself get away with their sin. It would be unjust. But heres another thing. The Bible teaches that there is NOTHING that we can do on our own to get into heaven. Thats right, even BELIEVING that God exists and that Jesus is the messiah does not get you into heaven. It is part of it yes, but that alone is meaningless. The Bible says that demons believe and know that God exists and that Jesus is the messiah, but they are not going to heaven. Here is how it works. First of all, God chooses who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. This is one of the most difficult things that Christians today have believing. How could a loving God send people to hell? But, if everyone is destined to hell in the first place, then it is amazing mercy and love that God turned some people around. I'll admit, it is very difficult to understand. One of the things that I am currently having a hard time wrapping my brain around is people like Mother Teresa. According to the Bible, I dont think she is in heaven. THIS IS HARD!! How can she not be in heaven???? And you know what, we may not be able to understand it. But God is all powerful and perfect. He can do what he likes. After God chooses his elect, then, sometime in that persons life, God will turn him around and save him. From then on, that person is filled with the Spirit, whihc helps him become more godlike. That person develops a relationship with God. THIS is what make Christianity different. We do not get into heaven by following a bunch of rules or believing that Jesus is God. We have a special relationship with Him. Christianity is the only religion in the world where this is the case. So, to sum it all up, yes; hell is hard to understand. But it is necessary.

Thoughts on this?

Rambling circular argument is rambling circular argument is rambling....

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-04-2013, 03:34 PM
Fb message
Why am I suddenly dizzy?
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01-04-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: Fb message
Needs more paragraph breaks, and less craziness. That would make it easier to read.
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01-04-2013, 03:40 PM
RE: Fb message
It isn't even an argument, just a bunch of Calvinist spewing with no backing.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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01-04-2013, 03:43 PM
RE: Fb message
I think you would benefit from cognitive therapy.Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-04-2013, 03:51 PM
RE: Fb message
So what does KC think about this?

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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01-04-2013, 04:02 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 07:06 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: Fb message
******

Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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01-04-2013, 04:31 PM
RE: Fb message
Yea, so? It sounds as if this might be something that you are just now beginning to understand... is this correct, ChuckT?

I've personally known this for quite some time so, I really have no thoughts about it except to say it's just another reason for me to look to logic and rational thought to go about my life.

If you are asking that if by understanding this, it in some way alters my view of being a non-theist, then: No; god is irrelevant to me personally and religion is a destructive dogma which, in my opinion, squanders humanity's evolution.

***
My question for you ChuckT: does this new understanding alter your personal view of yourself and of the choices concerning your theist/non-theist views?

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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01-04-2013, 04:43 PM
RE: Fb message
Oh FFS! Again.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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