Fear of ghosts etc
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09-05-2017, 10:10 AM
RE: Fear of ghosts etc
I agree with every word of yours.But some personal experiences are hard to explain.Let me give you some examples:

[1]--->My grandma[in village] was ill and was hospitalised after which she was discharged.We went to visit her then returned to city.Next morning I woke up around 4:25 am [I usually wake up at 7:30 am, so its weird to wake up so early] ,I didn't move from bed, I just laid there, I looked at window [which is behind my head].Soon I saw a shadow on the frosted glass of window [shadow had ambigous shape, I thought it was a shadow of lady, although that shadow can be interpreted as anything].After than I heard a loud bang, as if someone threw a metallic object on concrete floor.[there was a metallic bowl outside my window sill, it is heavy base bowl, so wind can't blow it, someone may have thrown it-human,animal]

As I heard the sound the shadow quickly retreated.All this time I was concentrating to listen sounds of footsteps, but I heard nothing . Outside the window we have concrete flooring which has dry leaves scatterd all around.If the perpetrator was running away ,he would step on the dry leaves which would make sound. After that I woke my parents up and we moved to outside window. The bowl was lying at a distance of around 2 metres.We were pondering on who threw the bowl.At 4:15 am there is ambient light everywhere so ,it can't be a thief otherwise our neighbours on same side as window would have seen someone.[who wake up at 4 am and draw water from the well.] After a few minutes we got a call that our Grandma passed away and wished to see us at her last moments.

My theory-she wished to see us at her last moments.So her will manifested to alert us.

Other theories-some supernatural agent wished to alert us, I am psychic-my mind sensed the remote event and caused the phenomenon.

[3]-->My relatives have their own share of miracles stories and supernatural events
All of these doesn't point to ghosts, but maybe some supernatural things.
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09-05-2017, 10:30 AM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2017 11:06 AM by Brian37.)
RE: Fear of ghosts etc
(09-05-2017 10:10 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  I agree with every word of yours.But some personal experiences are hard to explain.Let me give you some examples:

[1]--->My grandma[in village] was ill and was hospitalised after which she was discharged.We went to visit her then returned to city.Next morning I woke up around 4:25 am [I usually wake up at 7:30 am, so its weird to wake up so early] ,I didn't move from bed, I just laid there, I looked at window [which is behind my head].Soon I saw a shadow on the frosted glass of window [shadow had ambigous shape, I thought it was a shadow of lady, although that shadow can be interpreted as anything].After than I heard a loud bang, as if someone threw a metallic object on concrete floor.[there was a metallic bowl outside my window sill, it is heavy base bowl, so wind can't blow it, someone may have thrown it-human,animal]

As I heard the sound the shadow quickly retreated.All this time I was concentrating to listen sounds of footsteps, but I heard nothing . Outside the window we have concrete flooring which has dry leaves scatterd all around.If the perpetrator was running away ,he would step on the dry leaves which would make sound. After that I woke my parents up and we moved to outside window. The bowl was lying at a distance of around 2 metres.We were pondering on who threw the bowl.At 4:15 am there is ambient light everywhere so ,it can't be a thief otherwise our neighbours on same side as window would have seen someone.[who wake up at 4 am and draw water from the well.] After a few minutes we got a call that our Grandma passed away and wished to see us at her last moments.

My theory-she wished to see us at her last moments.So her will manifested to alert us.

Other theories-some supernatural agent wished to alert us, I am psychic-my mind sensed the remote event and caused the phenomenon.

[3]-->My relatives have their own share of miracles stories and supernatural events
All of these doesn't point to ghosts, but maybe some supernatural things.

We are not here to hurt you, but help you.

You need to learn the the difference between what someone claims, and what is really going on.

"personal experience" is not enough. The person can truly believe what they think they saw, but be completely wrong at the same time about what was really going on.

To be fair, when I was a kid, and when I didn't know what I do now, I would have made those same claims.

3 times in my childhood, I "saw" my loved ones.

The first time I thought I "saw" my dead grandmother standing at the foot of my bed. It felt real at the time, and it did scare the shit out of me.

The second time I thought I saw my dead father. Again, it felt real at the time, and that also scared the shit out of me.

The third time I saw my living mom too, also standing at the foot of my bed.

Those were not real events, but a real misunderstanding on my part.

I was young, impressionable, and also had emotional problems and was bullied as a kid, and stress out by life too. What was really going on was stress caused and my dream state mixing with my open eyes. I was hallucinating. I would have honestly believed I was seeing spirits back then if you had asked me.

Again, just because most of the world makes those claims, does not mean they are true. Our species gets indoctrinated most of the time by our parents and get sold the claims of our parents long before we can formulate adult critical thinking skills.

Nobody is or should claim those people are always lying, we are doubting their perception of reality.

The natural explanation as to why people make those claims is because humans don't know better, or they do and don't care and take advantage of those who don't know better, or get sold those ideas because their parents got sold those ideas.

There is no such thing as super natural. There are only humans who get sold those ideas and sell those ideas, because they don't know any better, or they do know better and don't care.

Your fear will go away sooner once you consider and accept that and learn about evolutionary and neurological reasons as to why false perceptions happen.

Have you ever walked around with your keys in your pocket, around your neck or even in your hands forgetting you have them? Have you ever lifted your leg to go up steps and misjudged them and tripped? That is the same thing, gap filling, false perception, except superstition gets added to the idea of ghosts and spirits and that again, is nothing more than humans gap filling projecting their own qualities on their wrong interpretation of stimuli.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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09-05-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Fear of ghosts etc
(09-05-2017 10:10 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  I agree with every word of yours.But some personal experiences are hard to explain.Let me give you some examples:

[1]--->My grandma[in village] was ill and was hospitalised after which she was discharged.We went to visit her then returned to city.Next morning I woke up around 4:25 am [I usually wake up at 7:30 am, so its weird to wake up so early] ,I didn't move from bed, I just laid there, I looked at window [which is behind my head].Soon I saw a shadow on the frosted glass of window [shadow had ambigous shape, I thought it was a shadow of lady, although that shadow can be interpreted as anything].After than I heard a loud bang, as if someone threw a metallic object on concrete floor.[there was a metallic bowl outside my window sill, it is heavy base bowl, so wind can't blow it, someone may have thrown it-human,animal]

As I heard the sound the shadow quickly retreated.All this time I was concentrating to listen sounds of footsteps, but I heard nothing . Outside the window we have concrete flooring which has dry leaves scatterd all around.If the perpetrator was running away ,he would step on the dry leaves which would make sound. After that I woke my parents up and we moved to outside window. The bowl was lying at a distance of around 2 metres.We were pondering on who threw the bowl.At 4:15 am there is ambient light everywhere so ,it can't be a thief otherwise our neighbours on same side as window would have seen someone.[who wake up at 4 am and draw water from the well.] After a few minutes we got a call that our Grandma passed away and wished to see us at her last moments.

My theory-she wished to see us at her last moments.So her will manifested to alert us.

Other theories-some supernatural agent wished to alert us, I am psychic-my mind sensed the remote event and caused the phenomenon.

[3]-->My relatives have their own share of miracles stories and supernatural events
All of these doesn't point to ghosts, but maybe some supernatural things.

This is a classic example of what I was talking about regarding our brains and how they are set up to fill in the blanks and to engage in pattern making. Tongue

Your brain is drawing a connection (or drawing a pattern) between your grandma passing away, you waking up at 4:25 am, seeing a shadow person (also known as pareidolia), and hearing a loud bang. None of these things are actually related, but your brain is filling in the blanks and creating a story out of these unrelated events to try and make sense of them.

Our brains like to try and make sense of things and that's why it functions in this way. But remember, because our brains are set up this way, they can often and do often interpret outside stimulus wrong.
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09-05-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: Fear of ghosts etc
You might also want to try to understand "false perceptions" even outside claims of spirits too.

Dyslexia is now a medically explained brain defect that causes the person to not see objects, or words in the same sequence someone without it would see the same things.

I have ADD, and I transpose words like "their" and "there" constantly, that also again, is my brain falsely gap filling for a different reason.

Claims of "spirits" and "ghosts" are another form of gap filling and always based on false perception. Most humans don't have a medical, evolutionary biological understanding, and that is why people fall for "most people believe". Again, just like most humans once falsely believed the earth was flat. Humans do not understand how our false perceptions can easily fool us.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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09-05-2017, 11:46 AM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2017 12:02 PM by sea_tiger.)
RE: Fear of ghosts etc
I think I agree with you and agree with your conclusion.Its just that a part of my mind doesn't want to kick the supernatural part away

I'll illustrate here:

As a child I considered myself to be sinful and not deserving of heaven.One night I met Jesus in my dreams.He was wearing shephard's clothing and had a calm yet unsmiling face.He was standing near a river.I went to him and asked what I should do to go in heaven.He ignored me,didn't reply . He wasn't as loving as taught in Sunday school.After begging him many times he looked at me unemotionally and in calm yet stern voice he said-You need to die.Then an image came before me where two graves -one big and one small were burning with fire.

Supernatural thinking--->Now of course Jesus didn't command me to actually kill myself because that would be weird for him to say.The only reasonable thing I can come up with is that he wanted my present self to die and new self to rise-spiritually.

Natural cause---->From a young age my dreams contain elements of my thought,real events,inner fears.So the dream can fully be explained by natural brain process.

My conclusion--->The dream was a manifestation of my inner fears and events happening around me.
But in my childhood I was sometimes tempted to think- what if it was the real divine message.Of course that is not my belief right now.I don't consider supernatural to be real but sometimes such thoughts come to mind due to such weird events which are hard to explain.And yes it may be due to social bubble I am living in, where supernatural belief is common.The people around me talk about it with such unshakable confidence that I somewhat doubt myself.
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09-05-2017, 12:44 PM
Fear of ghosts etc
(09-05-2017 07:30 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  Q:Why my knowledge doesn't get rid of this fear? [its annoying and does no benefit]

We all have irrational fears. Sometimes they are quite difficult to get rid of.

I don't believe in ghosts at all. I can watch scary ghost movies and get bored. Well there was that one movie called "Momma". I can't explain why but it scared the shit out of me.
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09-05-2017, 12:57 PM
RE: Fear of ghosts etc
(09-05-2017 12:44 PM)KUSA Wrote:  
(09-05-2017 07:30 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  Q:Why my knowledge doesn't get rid of this fear? [its annoying and does no benefit]

We all have irrational fears. Sometimes they are quite difficult to get rid of.

I don't believe in ghosts at all. I can watch scary ghost movies and get bored. Well there was that one movie called "Momma". I can't explain why but it scared the shit out of me.

I didn't watch that but 'Ring' did it for me.It was scary and lasted a long time on my mind.I don't want to watch that again.[It took many days to get it out of my mind]
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10-05-2017, 07:34 AM
RE: Fear of ghosts etc
(09-05-2017 07:30 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  In my childhood days I used to spend summer vacation with my cousin brother in our grandma's house.He would tell me about ghost stories with great details in a very serious fashion[he insisted they were real , he was witness in some stories].Grandma used to tell us some ghost stories too[ to teach us how the satan will attack us if we don't to church or do some bad things].I didn't take grandma seriously ,but I took my cousin's stories as real events.Due to that in my pre mid-teens I was terrified of ghosts.Then my fears lessened gradually such that I don't care about them in real life, but remnants of it still remain.I still have nightmares.
My cousin is not afraid of ghosts,he just liked to scare others.But knowing that I still can't get rid of it.

Q:Why my knowledge doesn't get rid of this fear? [its annoying and does no benefit]

Naturally humans fear what they can't explain. It's seen even in the most greatest of minds. The fact we can die scares mostly everyone, as once death happens we have no idea what happens after. Ghosts are something like this, once dead, morals have no dictation over us as we are already dead. Often it's said ghosts are envious of the living, and this envy turns to anger, thus they take it out on the living.
Point is no matter how knowledgeable you are of the subject, no matter how much you tell yourself you're not afraid, human instinct is Fight or Flight. And with ghosts, you can't fight them, and you can't run from them. Thus we become afraid as not even our most basic survival tactics can save us from what we can't see nor run from.

Basic human nature, fear everything to live another day. Big Grin

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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