Fear
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07-02-2014, 09:49 AM
RE: Fear
That is a great point Impulse. We seem to recognize with a lot of thins that kids are too young to decide things on their own, we realize their ability to process those things are limited. However, with Religion is is perfectly acceptable to shove down their throat from an early age because as we all know "faith is a virtue".
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07-02-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: Fear
(06-02-2014 06:51 PM)natachan Wrote:  I got confirmed around nine or so. I remember it was a big ceremony in front of the priest and I was so scared and proud. I don't know why they did it so early, it was just something that was done. I don't think it had to do with fear of loss of members. After all, as adults we have left. I think it's more about the catholic love of ceremony and pomp (which I can respect).
Nine? Ohmy
I agree that Catholics love the ceremony and pomp, but I do think this is about fear. The whole point is about having a choice and they don't wait until kids become adults and can really make that choice properly. They have plenty of things to have ceremonies about so it's not like they couldn't wait on this one. So I do think it's deliberate to ensure more people go through with being confirmed. It's true, as you pointed out, that some leave anyway, but I think there are plenty more who got confirmed and now passively accept that without giving it further thought, but maybe they would have if the question had been brought up at a later age in their lives.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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07-02-2014, 09:52 AM
RE: Fear
(06-02-2014 07:19 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Of course, from their point of view, it would be bad not to; it's not like they believe they're incorrect.
That's a good point and I agree that it's a significant factor. They think they are doing a good thing by making sure people are less likely to back out of their personal fable.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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07-02-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: Fear
(06-02-2014 11:08 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 05:27 PM)Impulse Wrote:  So I'm left to conclude that the Catholic church deliberately pushes confirmation at an early age because they don't want people to really consider any other alternative. It's their fear of losing their congregation. But, if they are so confident in the rightness of their beliefs, why the fear? They have God on their side after all and all they have to do is pray. Just more evidence that they don't really believe what they profess to believe. Dodgy

Are you trying to imply that deep down, the leaders of the Church know they are peddling snake oil!? Say it aint so!
Who me? Angel Yes

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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07-02-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: Fear
The point is that the question is never really asked. Confirmation is supposed to be a confirmation of whether or not you want to be a Catholic. The Church makes sure to do this at a young age, as well as make it seem like a non-optional stepping stone that you just have to mindlessly go through without putting any thought into it, even if you could at such a young age.

Now there might be people that leave the church as they get older anyway, but these people did so based on their own thought, the option and question was never given to them by the church, they were never truly confirmed to begin with.
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07-02-2014, 09:55 AM
RE: Fear
(07-02-2014 05:14 AM)donotwant Wrote:  If there was a god and he wanted the best for us he would have fixed everything long ago.
I agree with the statement, but does this relate to my OP? If so, can you please clarify?

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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07-02-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: Fear
(07-02-2014 08:14 AM)mrlmichael Wrote:  I do think early indoctrination is a sign that church leaders, at least somewhat know they are pushing something really hard to sell. They know that their line of thinking requires you to not question, just have "faith", where the natural predispositions for logic we are born with make us ask questions. Indoctrinating young helps solve that in a lot of people.
Well said, and welcome to the forum. Thumbsup

(07-02-2014 09:53 AM)mrlmichael Wrote:  The point is that the question is never really asked. Confirmation is supposed to be a confirmation of whether or not you want to be a Catholic. The Church makes sure to do this at a young age, as well as make it seem like a non-optional stepping stone that you just have to mindlessly go through without putting any thought into it, even if you could at such a young age.

Now there might be people that leave the church as they get older anyway, but these people did so based on their own thought, the option and question was never given to them by the church, they were never truly confirmed to begin with.
Yes, exactly. They don't want people to have a choice or really give serious thought to it being a choice.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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07-02-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: Fear
For what it's worth, I believe I was confirmed when I was 11. I was raised a Catholic. I was an extremely annoying young Catholic though, asking questions as early as 7 or 8 like "If Adam and Eve were the first two humans, and only humans at one time, why do we have people of other colors?". My questions got tougher and tougher for people to answer as I kept getting older and most religion teachers were not much a fan of me. I actually think if I was given the choice at 11, or asked "Do you confirm that you want to be a member of the Catholic Church" I may have said no, and then gotten grounded.
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07-02-2014, 10:39 AM
RE: Fear
There probably are some kids who can make a decent choice at an early age and it sounds like you may have been one of them. That's probably why the link I posted in the OP mentioned ages 7 and 8. They probably realize even 10 or 11 might be too late for some.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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