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Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
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10-09-2016, 11:38 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(10-09-2016 03:50 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(10-09-2016 02:50 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  How's your favourite football team doing then?

It looks like they won't make the play-offs this year but I suppose that's what happens when you hold practices in an active volcano.

Quote:Got any ideas for cheap but interesting/unusual xmas presents?

Energy crystals. Not that New Age shit, I'm talking the real thing here. The USSR used RTGs (radiothermal generators) to power automated lighthouses on some of there more desolate frontiers. Metal scavengers have been stripping them of their shielding leaving behind the radioactive cores. See page 6 of this cheerful report for some cautionary tales. My favorite is the three woodsmen who carried a pair of them out on their backs. The active ingredient is typically Strontium-90. Get some of that and recrystallize it as strontianite. Energy crystals that actually glow! Side effects may include pets and children that glow, holes burned in your coffee table/floor/children, coma and death.

The decorative urn line of kitchen storage containers. Great fun for disturbing your friends and even better when you invite the JWs in for tea and cookies. Not for people with poor organizational skills least you get a double scoop of cremains in your coffee.

The Roomba lawn mower, because nothing says hilarity like a robot with high-speed rotating blades that bumps into and runs over things at random.

Quote:Why does my right arm ache?

Are you holding the world on your shoulders? Have you been shot? Is something eating it? Phantom pain?
Thanks, P, love the idea of the crystals, a short life but enhanced by the beauty of nuclear physics going on in your very own home!

Urns, meh, never get bothered by the JWs, they see the door phone and know the door will never open. Ditto double glazing salesmen.

The arm? Probably just old age and all this movement tapping the o-s keyboard on this tablet. RSI + arthritis.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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10-09-2016, 11:49 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(10-09-2016 11:38 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  Urns, meh, never get bothered by the JWs, they see the door phone and know the door will never open. Ditto double glazing salesmen.

You double glaze salesmen over there? Here they're either lightly dusted with icing sugar or basted with BBQ sauce, all depending on how you prepare them of course.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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11-09-2016, 12:03 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2016 01:00 AM by Gloucester.)
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(10-09-2016 07:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionar..._religions

Religion arose in human society (societies) long after Homo sapiens migrated out of Africa. If there were a genetic mutation / trait that promoted belief as an adjunct to survival, that mutation would have had to happen in many multiple locations, simultaneously, and independently, as humans were already living in geographically isolated locations. The probability that all those independent societies all independently experienced the SAME mutation, and had it selected for, is so low, it defies any probability. It's ZERO. The human genome has been sequenced. There is no known gene for belief in the gods.
BB, do we know for sure there was not any kind of simple verbal, but ritualized, praying to the Sun and/or animal spirits before the African exodus? Do we have evidence there was not or just a lack of evidence that there was?

There was what has been labelled a "paint workshop" found in the Blombos cave (on S Africa"s south coast) along with geometric designs on stones. These have been dated to around 100 ky ago. Does this not mitigate for sufficient sophistication to have a "spiritual" dimension in their lives as well?

Later thoughts:
Does it come down to semantics, to what is meant by the term "religion"? Is one small, isolated, related group praying to a naturalistic deity for a good hunt practicing a "religion", or does it take organised ritual involving many unrelated people, a set of rules and a hierarchy?

From your Wiki link:
Quote:When humans first became religious remains unknown, but there is credible evidence of religious behavior from the Middle Paleolithic era (300–500 thousand years ago)[citation needed] and possibly earlier.

So that's before the African exodus.

OK, the "citation needed" is the caveat here, as so often, in such a field we are theorising from possibly inadequate evidence or understanding.

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11-09-2016, 04:27 AM
Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(09-09-2016 12:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(09-09-2016 11:18 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  All forms of dualistic, beliefs in a cosmic order, etc... are theistic. Those who subscribe to such beliefs but don't like to label themselves as theists, are just confused, or closeted theist.

There are more forms of theism, than there is atheism. A variety of different understanding of the vary meaning of God/s.
How exactly does that equate?

That's like hijacking morality for religious sentiment. Yet it can linger out there without it.

Theism isn't the center of it all. .. because in the past you've said, well those types of believers are closer in overall thought to you than agnostic atheist skeptical types, doesn't grant them to be considered theists. Yeah they like you believe in order and not "randomness" but that doesn't make them a form of theist or pantheist.


When their beliefs align with one form of theism or the other, they're theists whether they like the label or not. If you believe in what would be defined by variety of theists as a God/s, you're a theist, even if you remain in the closet.

Theists have had thousands of years to spread they're wings and paint a variety of forms of theism, that swallows any sort of dualistic perspective, or perspective that ordains life as having a meaningful order, or narrative arc.

Such individuals would be akin to the ten percent of atheists who also claim to believe in God, or Christians who claim that Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship, or in other words confused, about the very thing they claim to believe.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-09-2016, 04:30 AM
Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(09-09-2016 11:55 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(09-09-2016 11:18 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There are more forms of theism, than there is atheism.

Because there is only one truth surrounded by a variety of lies.


Sounds like a very Christian belief. Of one truth surround by distortions and lies.

Why not hold that there is no such thing as truth, rather than hold to a belief in a hidden and rare truth, elusive to mankind.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-09-2016, 04:33 AM
Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(09-09-2016 11:38 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Why does failure among theists to agree on the nature of God make it more likely that God exists?

I never said that.

If you hold a view of reality that falls in line with one of the many varieties of theism, you're a theist, whether you like the label or not.







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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-09-2016, 04:36 AM
Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(09-09-2016 11:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-09-2016 08:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And that would be false.

Even from an evolutionary standpoint there is no biological need to explain the unexplainable, for religion to fill.

Flat out wrong. The mammalian brain evolved to have both the means and desire to detect and assign agency.

That seems to be false too. The evidence shows our brains are predisposed to a negativity bias, not agency detection. Which just seems to be a bad interpretation of the data.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-09-2016, 04:41 AM
Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(09-09-2016 08:26 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Just out of curiosity, Randy, if theism is the default, then why do churchs have to hard sell Christianity to people? Why must children be programmed instead of just letting nature take its course? Can't they be trusted to just naturally fall into Christianity the same way that they'll just naturally go into puberty and crave romantic attention?


Because theism doesn't equate to religion. Just like the majority of those who define themselves as non-religious yet hold to a belief in a god of some sorts.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-09-2016, 05:31 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(11-09-2016 04:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-09-2016 11:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  Flat out wrong. The mammalian brain evolved to have both the means and desire to detect and assign agency.

That seems to be false too. The evidence shows our brains are predisposed to a negativity bias, not agency detection. Which just seems to be a bad interpretation of the data.


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What does that even mean? What is a 'negativity bias' and what has that to do with agency detection?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-09-2016, 05:34 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(11-09-2016 04:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Such individuals would be akin to the ten percent of atheists who also claim to believe in God, ...

Citation required. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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