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Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
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14-09-2016, 08:18 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 08:15 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  One other quick question, Tamasia; are youbusing "teleological" in the pure philosophical way or in the theological manner?

Being more the pragmatist than the philosopher in my approach to everyday life I admit to having to refresh my memory.

I don't know what the difference here would be, but I'd say I mean it a purely philosophical way.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-09-2016, 08:31 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 08:18 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 08:15 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  One other quick question, Tamasia; are youbusing "teleological" in the pure philosophical way or in the theological manner?

Being more the pragmatist than the philosopher in my approach to everyday life I admit to having to refresh my memory.

I don't know what the difference here would be, but I'd say I mean it a purely philosophical way.
teleology
ˌtɛlɪˈɒlədʒi,ˌtiːl-
noun
PHILOSOPHY
the explanation of phenomena by the purpose they serve rather than by postulated causes.
"no theory of history can do without teleology"
THEOLOGY
the doctrine of design and purpose in the material world

Now we need definitions for the definitions - bloody philosophy!

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14-09-2016, 09:09 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
Since choice of source for this sort of thing may depend on personal influences, for example I would almost certainly dismiss any creationist sources out of hand - having learned over years of their inevitable bias away from that which I believe. Apart from that they are too often of the nature of Rabdy Ruggels' efforts at lies and misrepresentations.

Academic theological papers are difficult because they inevitably use jargon and assume knowledge not familiar to me.

Therefore your specific choice of sources on which you base your contentions is important to me. I will admit to being poorly read and basing my own arguments on observations of kids and their development over 50 years, or more, and what passes for logic and rationality in my mind.

At the moment I do not have the time or mental stamina to fully mug up on philosophy, nor really the inclination in whatever is left of my life! The demands of the physical world all too often outweigh those of the metaphysical for me.

At last I fixed the leak in the toilet cistern today!! But am now shattered.

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14-09-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 09:09 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  ...
At last I fixed the leak in the toilet cistern today!! But am now shattered.

The medical term for that is "shitter-shatter".

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14-09-2016, 10:00 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 08:31 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 08:18 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I don't know what the difference here would be, but I'd say I mean it a purely philosophical way.
teleology
ˌtɛlɪˈɒlədʒi,ˌtiːl-
noun
PHILOSOPHY
the explanation of phenomena by the purpose they serve rather than by postulated causes.
"no theory of history can do without teleology"
THEOLOGY
the doctrine of design and purpose in the material world

Now we need definitions for the definitions - bloody philosophy!

I'll stick with the philosophical view.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-09-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 08:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There's a variety of studies published in a variety of different peer reviewed journals, like the one previously linked to, a simple google search would help. And unless we're to conclude the researches were lying, or are not to be trusted, their observation stands, as well as the inferences drawn from them.

Oh. You mean the ONE you linked to, that in 2 paragraphs JUMPS from children to make claims about adults ? That one ? Its all bogus. You make claims about multiple studies, and post one bogus one. Teleological views of children have absolutely NOTHING to do with atheism. Even IF they did, correlation is not causation. It's all a red herring, and totally irrelevant. Is this the critical thinking they teach at your prestigious university ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-09-2016, 01:57 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 01:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 08:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There's a variety of studies published in a variety of different peer reviewed journals, like the one previously linked to, a simple google search would help. And unless we're to conclude the researches were lying, or are not to be trusted, their observation stands, as well as the inferences drawn from them.

Oh. You mean the ONE you linked to, that in 2 paragraphs JUMPS from children to make claims about adults ? That one ? Its all bogus. You make claims about multiple studies, and post one bogus one. Teleological views of children have absolutely NOTHING to do with atheism. Even IF they did, correlation is not causation. It's all a red herring, and totally irrelevant. Is this the critical thinking they teach at your prestigious university ?

Teleological views have to do with ascribing design/intentionality/purpose to nature.

A public school teacher teaching a teleological view of nature, would rightly be accused of violating the separation of church and state.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-09-2016, 02:18 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 01:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 01:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oh. You mean the ONE you linked to, that in 2 paragraphs JUMPS from children to make claims about adults ? That one ? Its all bogus. You make claims about multiple studies, and post one bogus one. Teleological views of children have absolutely NOTHING to do with atheism. Even IF they did, correlation is not causation. It's all a red herring, and totally irrelevant. Is this the critical thinking they teach at your prestigious university ?

Teleological views have to do with ascribing design/intentionality/purpose to nature.

A public school teacher teaching a teleological view of nature, would rightly be accused of violating the separation of church and state.
Hang on, T, you seem to be implying something like the theological use of the word teleolgy there. Thought you stuck with the philosophical.

"Design"? "Purpose"? "Intentionality"? Ascribed to nature? Sounds rather like "Intelligent Design" talk to me. What are your thoughts on that subject?

Nature just happens; no intentions, no design, no aims, no ambitions, no purpose, beyond those of individuals and their groupings.

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14-09-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 02:18 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(14-09-2016 01:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Teleological views have to do with ascribing design/intentionality/purpose to nature.

A public school teacher teaching a teleological view of nature, would rightly be accused of violating the separation of church and state.
Hang on, T, you seem to be implying something like the theological use of the word teleolgy there. Thought you stuck with the philosophical.

"Design"? "Purpose"? "Intentionality"? Ascribed to nature? Sounds rather like "Intelligent Design" talk to me. What are your thoughts on that subject?

Nature just happens; no intentions, no design, no aims, no ambitions, no purpose, beyond those of individuals and their groupings.

"Nature just happens; no intentions, no design, no aims, no ambitions, no purpose, beyond those of individuals and their groupings."

AND THIS would mean teleology does not exist in nature, philosophically or religiously. That nature has no telos.

And yes thats exactly what teleology sounds likes "intelligent design", which is true both philosophically and theologically understood.

A child who believes that pointy rocks exist so porcupines can scratch their back is expressing a teleological view here, that the rock exists for a particular aim and purpose. Which would be false, at least according to your view.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-09-2016, 03:07 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(14-09-2016 01:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Teleological views have to do with ascribing design/intentionality/purpose to nature.

A public school teacher teaching a teleological view of nature, would rightly be accused of violating the separation of church and state.
Not quite. But they certainly would rightly be accused of not understanding evolution.
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