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Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
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08-09-2016, 11:10 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(08-09-2016 08:53 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 08:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'm afraid you failed right out of the gate. Your thesis #1 is self-contradictory.

If something is not supernatural or non-natural, it is within the purview of science.

I'm guessing you don't actually understand what science is.

Damn, how could i miss that one. Weeping
Couldnt see the forest for the trees Facepalm

Apparently you couldn't see what I wrote either. Wink

The scientific method makes no comment on whether God exists or not. The book is not about proving or disproving God or anything of the sort. It is about given a natural account of why some people are born without something that the data is telling us most of us have innately.
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08-09-2016, 11:11 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
So let me get this straight, Dr. Paul Vitz's book's title is actually referring to a very narrow definition of the word "atheism" which is basically equivalent to militant, evangelical, politicized anti-theism, and then he blames the general lack of belief in non-empirically-verifiable entities on... daddy issues. What the actual fuck? That book sounds horrendous. Judging by the book's particular biographical focus, it sounds like the very definition of cherry picking.



If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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08-09-2016, 11:11 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(08-09-2016 10:43 PM)Randy Ruggles Wrote:  Possibly because out default theism is built on some other sets of consideration, more to do with out innate desire for meaning, hope, purpose, a sense of life which posses some sense of meaningful order.

In this regard one does see life as a cosmic accident, but intentional, "designed" so to say.

If these sort of beliefs are our default tendencies, than it goes without saying that we're intuitive theists in this regard.


Excellent point, Tomasia. But since some people claim to have been born without this, it calls out for an explanation. One problem I might have is collecting data on is exactly what percentage of atheists are true atheopaths and what percentage are atheists for other reasons (eg. they don't see any evidence) because I think there simply hasn't been enough research done into this area. Who wants to volunteer for an MRI? LOL!

Many atheists also in default believing and seek meaning and order.

This notion is massively build on some connection that isn't sensible. Some description of what you think someone that doesn't believe in a deity is that doesn't reflect them nearly at all in mass.

Somehow you don't understand atheist doesn't mean you believe only natural testable evidence or that you are nihilistic. Those aren't default theism/atheism.

From ranges of types of Buddhists to integral theory supporters to the supernatural or raliens are among the hundreds of millions of people who may be atheists that got those so called theism descriptions but those descriptions literally have no actual connection to the concept of a deity.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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08-09-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(08-09-2016 12:16 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  Hope we haven't scared/pissed Randy off. Thought this was going to be a really interesting debate.

I was looking forward to seeing his hypothesis totally demolished. Several times over.

Why would you look forward to that? I would think someone who loves science would be willing to follow the evidence wherever it leads. Why get emotional? Just a question.
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08-09-2016, 11:15 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(08-09-2016 11:10 PM)Randy Ruggles Wrote:  ...... It is about given a natural account of why some people are born without something that the data is telling us most of us have innately.

Wait.. so now, the deity detector is not some 'Thing' that exists 'Out there, some where'....

.... It's some sort of bundle of neurons within the brain that does... what, exactly?

*Raises hand*

(08-09-2016 11:13 PM)Randy Ruggles Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 12:16 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  Hope we haven't scared/pissed Randy off. Thought this was going to be a really interesting debate.

I was looking forward to seeing his hypothesis totally demolished. Several times over.

Why would you look forward to that? I would think someone who loves science would be willing to follow the evidence wherever it leads. Why get emotional? Just a question.

Perchance they are asking for this evidence? Some of your wording seems... strange....

So, how about some more and better definitions? Smile

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08-09-2016, 11:16 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(08-09-2016 11:13 PM)Randy Ruggles Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 12:16 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  Hope we haven't scared/pissed Randy off. Thought this was going to be a really interesting debate.

I was looking forward to seeing his hypothesis totally demolished. Several times over.

Why would you look forward to that? I would think someone who loves science would be willing to follow the evidence wherever it leads. Why get emotional? Just a question.

Huh, science is all about showing hypothesizes wrong and trying again and again.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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08-09-2016, 11:20 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
I haven't had time to read and respond to all the replies but it is late and I must go to bed. Thank you everyone for your responses and I look forward to catching up tomorrow.

For the record, I find it very interesting that most people are rejecting the idea of us being born with beliefs when I'm afraid this is rapidly becoming a well-established scientific fact. I expected more people to attack my hypothesis that atheopathy is caused by a genetic mutation. It's a radical idea for which there might be little evidence. Time will tell. But science has always progressed by someone challenging the reigning paradigm (eg. Einstein and Newtonian physics.) Thanks for being a part of this. Night all. Smile
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08-09-2016, 11:31 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(08-09-2016 11:20 PM)Randy Ruggles Wrote:  I haven't had time to read and respond to all the replies but it is late and I must go to bed. Thank you everyone for your responses and I look forward to catching up tomorrow.

Hug

G'night!

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(08-09-2016 11:20 PM)Randy Ruggles Wrote:  For the record, I find it very interesting that most people are rejecting the idea of us being born with beliefs when I'm afraid this is rapidly becoming a well-established scientific fact. I expected more people to attack my hypothesis that atheopathy is caused by a genetic mutation. It's a radical idea for which there might be little evidence. Time will tell. But science has always progressed by someone challenging the reigning paradigm (eg. Einstein and Newtonian physics.) Thanks for being a part of this. Night all. Smile

I'll let others with far more knowledge in the fields about which you're talking answer the "Well established" bit... but I'm still lost as to the actual nature of what you're proposing.

I look forwards to your further expansions on/too people's questions.

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09-09-2016, 12:11 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
Quote:1. Our starting assumption is not that a god exists or doesn't exist but that its existence is outside of the purview of science. We will not consider supernatural or non-natural explanations

(08-09-2016 09:43 PM)Randy Ruggles Wrote:  Thanks for your response. I'll answer each point in turn.

1. "You missed the bit where you define what a God is?"

I don't have to. Methodological naturalism doesn't consider God when testing scientific hypotheses. (Incidentally, I am a methodological naturalist but not a philosophical naturalist. But my personal beliefs are irrelevant to my thesis.)

Um. I think you're trolling. If your assumption is "The existence of a God is outside the purview of science"... then for that sentence to mean anything you have to know what the individual words mean. Otherwise you're just masturbating.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-09-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
The article OP referenced doesn't even dispute the notion that children are born as atheists. Dr. Barrett's research showed that young children are predisposed to believe that even things in nature were created with a purpose in mind; it didn't show that they believe in a monotheistic, all-powerful deity from the moment they are born or that they believe this deity to be the one who created things in nature. Maybe Dr. Barrett should have asked these children who they thought created those birds instead of inserting his views in place of their own.

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