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Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
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20-09-2016, 02:38 PM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2016 03:17 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(20-09-2016 06:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The heart exists because of random mutations, and natural selection. By chance, not purpose.

LMAO. Thanks for demonstrating you know NOTHING about the subject. The heart exists because throughout the history of evolution, various chambered "pumps" promoting circulation were found useful, and maximized survival. That's not "chance" or "random", after the process has begun. Mutations which promoted better pumping and efficient use of energy were selected for.
Maybe you should ask your "prestigious university" for your money back.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-09-2016, 03:38 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(20-09-2016 06:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:Yes, sure I am in the context of complex living things and evolution.

I guess you're a closeted theists then lol. Or you just don't understand teleology. Unless there's intention in nature, there is no teleology.

Teleology is not about intention, it is an explanation from purpose, it does not imply intention or design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology
Quote:is the philosophical study of nature by attempting to describe things in terms of their apparent purpose, directive principle, or goal.

I can see why many people try to avoid such language, due to other people (either through ignorance or theological predispositions) coming to unfounded assumptions about there being an end goal which is intentionally worked towards.

"Oh, the human body needs a pump, someone therefore must have designed a heart specifically for this purpose."

Perhaps if I went to a religious school or got my degrees by mail order then I might hold similar views to Tomasia.

But I have no worries in saying that the purpose of a heart is to pump/circulate blood. Especially if I was to talk to children. I would say "purpose" rather than "function" because a child has a limited vocabulary and may not have come across the word "function" before.

Trying to interpret children's explanations of things in the world using "purpose" as to mean that the child believes in divine god creators, is really a stretch and just shows the confirmation bias in the person doing the interpretation.

Much like Tomasia telling me that I am a closet theist. Even though I have clearly explained my position.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology
Quote:S. H. P. Madrell writes that "the proper but cumbersome way of describing change by evolutionary adaptation [may be] substituted by shorter overtly teleological statements" for the sake of saving space, but that this "should not be taken to imply that evolution proceeds by anything other than from mutations arising by chance, with those that impart an advantage being retained by natural selection
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20-09-2016, 04:06 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(20-09-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:I was in no way dishonest in that historicity debate. I'm sorry that you feel arguments from authority mean you can make the same leaps of illogic that the person being cited was making, and for dubious reasons.

Ah huh. I’ve argued with you in relationship to numerous topics, there was stark difference between the rocketsurgeon in those discussion, and the historicity when, where you’d just sprout one nonsensical thing after the other, and constantly contradict yourself. You’re the guy who believes that Jesus did exist, yet claim there’s no evidence for that, lacking even a self-reflection as to how one can reasonably infer the former without the latter.

Where in the past you might appeared a little more independent in your thought pattern, the historicity debate showed you bending to the collective thought patterns of the group, even when it comes at the price of irrationality and contradictions on your part.

I believe that we can conclude from elements in the Bible that it's more likely than not that Jesus was a real person, a person who probably bears little resemblance to the Jesus the Christ that was later invented by Christian "helpers". [Edit to Add: The "beatitudes" and other "sayings" are considered the most likely to have actually come from the real man, but the magical/messianic stuff, not so much.] That includes being skeptical that Nazareth was actually his hometown, for the reasons I stated (the stories don't match the geography or the archaeology), or that it was nothing more than a one-horse town that grew rapidly in size during the upheavals of the Jewish Revolt in 70 C.E., but the later writers of the Gospels didn't realize the discrepancy because they weren't there, as claimed in the stories.

I elected to leave the discussion when it was clear that GU wasn't interested in doing more than parroting the opinions of a single archaeologist and a number of repeater articles that said the same thing she did... except that (as I pointed out), she didn't exactly say what the articles (and GU) were saying. You're the one who decided to be a dick about it.

Mis-stating what I actually think (building a straw-man) doesn't make you right. And it certainly doesn't make me irrational. But you suuuure try hard to make it sound that way.

(20-09-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  lol, you’re fucking idiot. You don’t know me. I have no qualms in saying anything that I’ve said to you online, to your face. And guess mentioning you were in prison was you pulling your tough guy card? Weren’t you in prison for check fraud or some shit? And I’m a Marine Corps vet, so what.

I’m in Philadelphia, anytime you in the area you let me know, i’ll give you my address, so I can call you “Felecia” right in front of my door. Cuz clearly that’s all you need, to attempt to put your hands on my throat right? I’d love to see your chump ass pull some shit like that, acting as if I’m some dude hiding behind the internet, lol.

It means I've faced as much close combat as most combat veterans face, minus the guns. When you can say you've survived an assault by three guys, one of whom had a screwdriver, and put all three of them in the infirmary, I might be impressed. Marine? Meh. Your combat training style is predictable in action, unless you've taken the time to take additional cross-training.

I was in prison because someone lied and said I was a major drug dealer and the authorities thought I'd give up names I didn't have to give them, if they offered me a deal if I talked (which I couldn't, as I said)... and I was released because they built a nice story that simply didn't have any evidence other than testimony from two people with strong motive to lie, the judge lied to the jury about the standard it took to convict, and I was blocked from introducing evidence that would show the lies were lies. The appeals court looked at the evidence I was barred from introducing and determined that I would never have been convicted if the judge had not "erred", as they put it.

As for "some dude hiding behind the internet", it's the only thing I could think of that would make a person act as you are acting. I just can't fathom another reason for a person to be so nasty as an individual except that they're blustering to cover up some deeply pathetic element in their own lives.

But if I'm ever stupid enough to go to Philadelphia for some other reason (never heard anything good about that town), I'll make sure to look you up so we can have that beer.

(20-09-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:Another way to put "avoid being harsh" is "don't be a dick". Yeah, that's a pretty good rule for having people not loathe you.

If I loathe you, I except to be loathed back. The mistake is to assume that I dislike you because you’re an atheists, or because you disagree with me. If that was the case I would of loathed you along time ago. If we don’t like each other, just know the feeling is mutual.

On the other hand, it takes a lot to make me dislike someone, let alone loathe them. So congratulations, your shitty personality wins a prize.

(20-09-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:But I don't think anyone likes you, theist or atheist. You're a special kind of special.

Not really. I tend to be liked/loved far more than I deserve to be. But then again I don’t hang out with folks that would call me dipshit, or threaten to choke me, for calling them a name from Friday. Surprisingly the closet thing to such friction in a relationship, of mutual loathing, is on the internet amongst strangers. I know that many of you come from places where your families have rejected you, abandoned you, have fathers and mothers, or siblings that despise you for who you are, that world is entirely foreign to me.

So that’s just another example of where your pop-psychology is wrong.

Rolleyes The "pop psychology" line was a reference to the OP, mocking what he's attempting to do with his book. Geezus, man, get a grip.

But you're very lucky not to know what it's like to be rejected by family for having the courage of your convictions, in a world where people prefer to parrot the common beliefs of their culture-- Muslims in Saudi Arabia, Christians in USA, Hindus in India, etc. One nice thing about realizing what a mind-poison religion can be, when one rejected belief is enough for your birth family to treat you like shit, is that you get to choose better people to be around. And I really like my life, now.

But you're right, I probably am more loved than I deserve. I've often said we are lucky that good women have bad taste in men. I've married way out of my league, and I'm okay with that. Hopefully she is, too. We made two beautiful children together.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-09-2016, 04:32 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
Quote:Where in the past you might appeared a little more independent in your thought pattern, the historicity debate showed you bending to the collective thought patterns of the group, even when it comes at the price of irrationality and contradictions on your part.

What a pile of meaningless, patronizing unjustified bullshit.
There has NEVER once been a post here of RS that demonstrated his bending to anything, Tomato, and you fucking know it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-09-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
If you guys want a good laugh check out Randy's Facebook page.
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20-09-2016, 10:29 PM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2016 10:32 PM by Fireball.)
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(20-09-2016 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-09-2016 12:31 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I've seen you be abusive to a number of people on here for no reason other than your annoyance that they don't agree with you.

lol, i’m on an atheists forum, pretty much everyone here disagrees with me. You and I have hardly ever agreed on a single thing, yet it’s been mostly congenial between us, till recently. And there’s a number of posters who strongly disagree with me on a variety of positions, yet I don’t particularly attack, or deride. So no, if you’ve been treated poorly by me, it has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me.

Quote:I was in no way dishonest in that historicity debate. I'm sorry that you feel arguments from authority mean you can make the same leaps of illogic that the person being cited was making, and for dubious reasons.

Ah huh. I’ve argued with you in relationship to numerous topics, there was stark difference between the rocketsurgeon in those discussion, and the historicity when, where you’d just sprout one nonsensical thing after the other, and constantly contradict yourself. You’re the guy who believes that Jesus did exist, yet claim there’s no evidence for that, lacking even a self-reflection as to how one can reasonably infer the former without the latter.

Where in the past you might appeared a little more independent in your thought pattern, the historicity debate showed you bending to the collective thought patterns of the group, even when it comes at the price of irrationality and contradictions on your part.

Quote:I'm in Sikeston, Missouri, for about the next week. I'm in the process of moving to Kansas City.

"Have a beer", eh? Nice veiled challenge. I like it. I'd love the opportunity to let you say that shit to my face. Haven't had such an opportunity since I was transferred out of Max/Medium Security. Let me know if you're in town; we can meet anywhere you like. Won't let you come to my home because I don't trust that you won't try to harm my family, but I'd gladly find somewhere nice and quiet for our little discussion. Missouri has many such places.

lol, you’re fucking idiot. You don’t know me. I have no qualms in saying anything that I’ve said to you online, to your face. And guess mentioning you were in prison was you pulling your tough guy card? Weren’t you in prison for check fraud or some shit? And I’m a Marine Corps vet, so what.

I’m in Philadelphia, anytime you in the area you let me know, i’ll give you my address, so I can call you “Felecia” right in front of my door. Cuz clearly that’s all you need, to attempt to put your hands on my throat right? I’d love to see your chump ass pull some shit like that, acting as if I’m some dude hiding behind the internet, lol.

Quote:Another way to put "avoid being harsh" is "don't be a dick". Yeah, that's a pretty good rule for having people not loathe you.

If I loathe you, I except to be loathed back. The mistake is to assume that I dislike you because you’re an atheists, or because you disagree with me. If that was the case I would of loathed you along time ago. If we don’t like each other, just know the feeling is mutual.

Quote:But I don't think anyone likes you, theist or atheist. You're a special kind of special.

Not really. I tend to be liked/loved far more than I deserve to be. But then again I don’t hang out with folks that would call me dipshit, or threaten to choke me, for calling them a name from Friday. Surprisingly the closet thing to such friction in a relationship, of mutual loathing, is on the internet amongst strangers. I know that many of you come from places where your families have rejected you, abandoned you, have fathers and mothers, or siblings that despise you for who you are, that world is entirely foreign to me.

So that’s just another example of where your pop-psychology is wrong.

Interesting, if you were really a US Marine. I got in a bit of trouble dealing with Marines, when I was in the US Navy. They like to pick fights which they can't always finish. I'm an old man now, but I took no shit (and left my pencil at home) in those days. I think you are full of shit, all the way to the eyeballs.

My favorite bar joke-

Back in the early days of space exploration, they trained chimps to fly in the space capsules (true story). It was decided that those trained chimps should not fall into enemy hands. The solution was to have a Marine accompany the chimp into space, in case the space capsule landed in enemy territory (the Marines in the bar are now evincing cheesy grins, because they are so bad-ass)- that is the non-true part, BTW- no US Marines flew with the chimps. So, an extra couch was rigged in the space capsule for the Marine. Come launch day, the chimp is going through all the preps for launch, flipping switched, pusing buttons, etc.. All the while, he's got a 3 by 5 card in his coveralls that he checks, periodically. Launch, ascent, orbital maneuvers, he keeps checking that card. The Marine gets bored, and reaches over and pulls the card out of the chimps pocket. It says, "Feed the Marine at 5 O'Clock". And the fight was on. True story. I'm missing chunks of teeth to prove it.
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21-09-2016, 02:31 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
Quote: I know that many of you come from places where your families have rejected you, abandoned you, have fathers and mothers, or siblings that despise you for who you are, that world is entirely foreign to me.

Tomasia, as a relative newcomer I have viewed most of the interplay between yourself and the others as fairly typical for this type of forum.

However, that statenent of yours, quoted above, now informs me as to why you are so disliked, even hated. I have seen many stories, on several forums over ten years, of family conflict involving belief - either because a person could not accept the belief of their parents or those parents rejected them because of their sexuality.

In most cases the greater part of the hatred, and even violence came, from the theist side of the broken relationship.

Perhaps you have a loving relationship, good for you, do not disparage those who were rejected by their families simply because of a conflict of belief. There are good and bad in any large group you care to mention, evil stalks in churches and mosques as well as in bars and brothels.

Look at you own "pop psychology" and see the cracks before you criticise others.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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21-09-2016, 02:43 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
Quote:I dislike you because you’re an atheists
[Image: Sigmund_Freud_1926.jpg]

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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21-09-2016, 04:15 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
(21-09-2016 02:43 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
Quote:I dislike you because you’re an atheists
[Image: Sigmund_Freud_1926.jpg]
Not quite fun is he.

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21-09-2016, 04:19 AM
RE: Feedback requested on a new hypothesis on the origin of atheism
Quote:I dislike you because you’re an atheists

Ah, one who prefers to judge labels rather than people then.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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