Feelings toward converts/deconverts
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05-11-2014, 07:10 AM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2014 07:27 AM by Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue.)
RE: Feelings toward converts/deconverts
(05-11-2014 06:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(05-11-2014 05:07 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I wanna make this clear right from the get go, that if his views on "love" are rational or irrational has ZERO baring on his views on god

Except of course that it's view on love is what led him to believe in God in the first place. I would claim that certain views on love, may in essence lead to God belief, but I rather do this by starting from the beginning, in exploring the idea of love. If you're not up for this discussion that's fine, but I opening it up to whoever is interested.
Volunteering for the discussion so long as it's undergone in the morning. (It's 11:30 here and this will be my last post of the day.) I'll set up another thread in which to seclude ourselves and everybody can slip into something more comfortable.

It'll be in the philosophy section. Writing now so I can't provide a link. It is in the philosophy section. Here is the link.
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Quote:Let me be clear, there is no debate on the fact that "Love", like all emotions, is a clearly understood and naturally occurring process in the brain. We understand the chemical make up that causes it, why it is caused, and why it can begin to dissipate with time. It's chemistry and there is no debating that, in the real world, that is how it works.
Yet love is understood as more than it's chemical makeup. My chemical makeup can be in all sorts of places at any given time, I can feel very angry at my wife, and the anger may shows as some process occurring in the brain, but the same time this scan might not reveal that I love my wife, even though my chemistry suggests otherwise at a given moment. I love my wife regardless of how I feel at any given moment, even on days where i might feel apathetic and disinterested. Or in other words, what we mean by love here, is more than just a feeling.
Non sequitur. You haven't demonstrated that love is "more than just a feeling." Just that it isn't one that's consistently displayed. You also don't display anger towards your wife all the time and you're not constantly aroused. (At least I hope not.) Any repulsion or loathing you have towards something doesn't dominate your thoughts. It may not even be the first thing that comes up when you think about that thing.

Emotions aren't binary.
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Quote:I'm fine with people describing love in grandiose and poetic ways, I don't find that either rational or irrational just..poetic.
They are poetic, but none of them are merely poetic, they are all in fact laying claim to some truth about the very nature and power of love.

Quote:Example: When we say that a meal is divine we are using poetic license and there is nothing wrong with that.

Even in this statement i'm not merely saying something poetic, I am also say something that I find true, that this meal taste so exceptionally good.
I agree with Tomeasia here. All art is about communicating idea's. (I prefer that definition to "art is all about communicating emotional truth" which is what I've been taught.) The manner in which any given idea is communicated is inherently tied to the manner in which the idea is perceived.
(05-11-2014 05:56 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(05-11-2014 04:51 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Not really, in fact the factor often explored as going hand in hand with declines in religiosity, is welfare spending. "As governments gradually assume many of these welfare functions, individuals with elastic preferences for spiritual goods will reduce their level of participation since the desired welfare goods can be obtained from secular sources." While you might see a trend in education levels and religiosity, it's the comforts that education typically provides, such as a decent job, a nice home, an independence that's less reliant on community, and all the comforts money can buy, that tends to create a bed for atheism to arise.

http://rss.sagepub.com/content/16/4/399

Or in other words, the less you see a need for religion in your life, the more likely you are to abandon it.
America is one of the most wealthy countries in the world and it has some of the highest levels of religiosity. Education, specifically in logic and logical fallacies cripples the spread of religion. That's why it's taught to children before they CAN logically evaluate the claim. Unless your gonna claim that religions do NOT indoctrinate children. Which would be wrong.
Also your link does not work, just an fyi.
Link worked fine for me but the actual paper is locked behind a paywall. Here's a link to the full study.

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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05-11-2014, 07:18 AM
RE: Feelings toward converts/deconverts
(05-11-2014 04:51 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Well, I think the quality of atheists has gone down over the years, likely as the result of mass production. Today we have atheists who can't see the difference between the meaning of God and the Easter Bunny, who think that who created God is a question worth considering, and in which discussions among theists and atheists resemble what you might find in the school yard.

I was under the impression that to be atheist, one simply holds no belief in god(s). It's a simple thing with only one requirement.

If I were to suggest that the quality of theist has dropped over the years, I might also recommend that theists return to their roots. ISIS seems to be top shelf right now. Perhaps all theists should follow their holy books more closely as to step up quality control. Of course... That would be ridiculous, since the only defining quality of a theist is belief in god(s).
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