Feminism, Rape and Immigration
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17-08-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
(17-08-2014 04:43 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:Why is it that womens' salaries are not comparable to mens'?

If women had a little more ambition and went into higher paying jobs than maybe they would have comparable salaries.

That is based on same job.

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17-08-2014, 05:10 PM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
(17-08-2014 05:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-08-2014 04:43 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  If women had a little more ambition and went into higher paying jobs than maybe they would have comparable salaries.

That is based on same job.

I love it when people object to those figures based on about three seconds' contemplation.

"B..but what if women just are less educated/less ambitious/whatever..."

No, the goddamn statisticians are not idiots, and they thought of those objections long before you made them.

We can compare like to like as best we are able, and when we do, women earn less.

Not less because they work less; not less because they are in worse jobs; less. Period.

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18-08-2014, 04:38 AM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
How is time factor taken into consideration? Pay increase is based on what at selected companies? You have to ask for it? Are women less inclined to ask for a pay increase compared to men? etc..
Point being, is it because they're women and being discriminated against based on gender or is it because of something else.

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18-08-2014, 05:22 AM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
(18-08-2014 04:38 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Point being, is it because they're women and being discriminated against based on gender or is it because of something else.

Why does the because matter?

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18-08-2014, 08:43 AM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
(18-08-2014 04:38 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  How is time factor taken into consideration? Pay increase is based on what at selected companies? You have to ask for it? Are women less inclined to ask for a pay increase compared to men? etc..
Point being, is it because they're women and being discriminated against based on gender or is it because of something else.

It's like I said.

Statisticians aren't idiots. The superficial objections you or I can reflexively think of are already accounted for.

Here in Ontario, for example.

Factors such as educational attainment, gendered occupations, and unequal childcare roles are separately accounted for. Not that they aren't in and of themselves manifestations of inequality, but they are one step removed from direct discrimination, which in any case does exist.

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18-08-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
(18-08-2014 05:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-08-2014 04:38 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Point being, is it because they're women and being discriminated against based on gender or is it because of something else.

Why does the because matter?

Because we're talking about women being discriminated against based on gender...
That's sorta the whole point isn't it?

Quote:It's like I said.

Statisticians aren't idiots. The superficial objections you or I can reflexively think of are already accounted for.

Here in Ontario, for example.

Factors such as educational attainment, gendered occupations, and unequal childcare roles are separately accounted for. Not that they aren't in and of themselves manifestations of inequality, but they are one step removed from direct discrimination, which in any case does exist.

That article basically said what I said. It said women earn 74cents for every males $1.
BUT of the 26% gap, they estimate only 10-15% is due to discrimination.
The rest is due to other factors. ie: education, less time in the work place, lower paying jobs etc..

It doesn't at all say they account for those things in the 74cents on every $1 figure. In fact, it admits that a lot of that isn't discrimination. I'm also curious as to how they came to that estimation.

I acknowledge that there is discrimination there, but I would hardly say it significant and I would say it would be very situational.
That article also says the gap is decreasing. This could be due to less discrimination or it could be due to changing of the times. Either way I think statistics like these take time to have large changes ($1:$1) but I think my generation (90's kids) will help these statistics. Times are a changing and all that jaz.

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18-08-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
(18-08-2014 02:46 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(18-08-2014 05:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Why does the because matter?

Because we're talking about women being discriminated against based on gender...
That's sorta the whole point isn't it?

Yes... and you've agreed (I think) that it's happening... so... are we on the same page or... ?

Quote:[quote]
I acknowledge that there is discrimination there, but I would hardly say it significant and I would say it would be very situational.

10-15% on *average* less pay due to simple discrimination doesn't sound significant to you?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-08-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
(18-08-2014 02:46 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  That article basically said what I said. It said women earn 74cents for every males $1.
BUT of the 26% gap, they estimate only 10-15% is due to discrimination.
The rest is due to other factors. ie: education, less time in the work place, lower paying jobs etc..

It doesn't at all say they account for those things in the 74cents on every $1 figure. In fact, it admits that a lot of that isn't discrimination. I'm also curious as to how they came to that estimation.

That's nonetheless 10-15% unaccountable for by external factors.
(and as mentioned the external factors themselves are born of gender inequality)

Although: "I'm also curious as to how they came to that estimation"? Seriously? Why don't you write to Statistics Canada yourself, and ask them if they know how to do their jobs?

(18-08-2014 02:46 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I acknowledge that there is discrimination there, but I would hardly say it significant and I would say it would be very situational.

By what insane troll logic is 10-15% difference due to shits-and-giggles blatant discrimination not significant?

(18-08-2014 02:46 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  That article also says the gap is decreasing. This could be due to less discrimination or it could be due to changing of the times. Either way I think statistics like these take time to have large changes ($1:$1) but I think my generation (90's kids) will help these statistics. Times are a changing and all that jaz.

No shit.

But things stop changing if everyone sits back and says, "well, I guess that'll sort itself out, then..."

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18-08-2014, 03:40 PM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
Quote:10-15% on *average* less pay due to simple discrimination doesn't sound significant to you?

As much as 10-15%*
And no, it's certainly not giant organized movement let's all march on Washington and storm the white house gates significant.
It's pretty far down the list of what I would consider important world issues.

Quote:But things stop changing if everyone sits back and says, "well, I guess that'll sort itself out, then..."

Nobody is sitting back and doing nothing.
Women are getting more educated, men are staying home with the kids etc.. People are actively doing things and the times are changing.

This uproar regarding womens rights is outdated. Things don't happen overnight and everyone wants them to happen overnight.
Yes, there is a bit of inequality BUT times are changing. Come back in 25years and the statistics will completely different because those that are effecting the statistics in a big way, the baby boomer generation and shit, those born and raised in the 1800's, will be out of work or dead and my generation (90's and beyond) will be the domineering people in the work force. My generation and the generations after me are far more liberal when it comes to gender, sexuality and race related rights.

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18-08-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: Feminism, Rape and Immigration
(18-08-2014 03:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:10-15% on *average* less pay due to simple discrimination doesn't sound significant to you?

As much as 10-15%*
And no, it's certainly not giant organized movement let's all march on Washington and storm the white house gates significant.

In particular, I fail to see how protests in the United States would affect Canada.

(18-08-2014 03:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  It's pretty far down the list of what I would consider important world issues.

Then it may interest you to know that nobody has ever said that it was?

(18-08-2014 03:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:But things stop changing if everyone sits back and says, "well, I guess that'll sort itself out, then..."

Nobody is sitting back and doing nothing.
Women are getting more educated, men are staying home with the kids etc.. People are actively doing things and the times are changing.

This uproar regarding womens rights is outdated.

Citation needed on "uproar".

(18-08-2014 03:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Things don't happen overnight and everyone wants them to happen overnight.

Citation needed on "everyone wants [changes] to happen overnight".

(18-08-2014 03:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Yes, there is a bit of inequality BUT times are changing. Come back in 25years and the statistics will completely different because those that are effecting the statistics in a big way, the baby boomer generation and shit, those born and raised in the 1800's, will be out of work or dead and my generation (90's and beyond) will be the domineering people in the work force. My generation and the generations after me are far more liberal when it comes to gender, sexuality and race related rights.

And as I said before: no shit.

Nothing we've done here in Ontario could remotely be qualified as "uproar". At best it is raising awareness that, in fact, change does take time and systematic inequalities do still exist. That's it.

And you'd have to be pretty asinine to find fault with that.

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