Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
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16-08-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...























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21-08-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
I have been seeing activity on Facebook from Christian friends about "the good" that churches are doing in Ferguson, MO... does anyone know of anything that the humanist community is actively doing there? I can't seem to find anything online.

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21-08-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
As I foretold, the truth will come out in time, always does. More to contemplate:

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.”

According to the well-placed source, Wilson was coming off another case in the neighborhood on Aug. 9 when he ordered Michael Brown and his friend Dorain Johnson to stop walking in the middle of the road because they were obstructing traffic. However, the confrontation quickly escalated into physical violence, the source said.

“They ignored him and the officer started to get out of the car to tell them to move," the source said. "They shoved him right back in, that’s when Michael Brown leans in and starts beating Officer Wilson in the head and the face."

The source claims that there is "solid proof" that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm, resulting in the gun going off – although it still remains unclear at this stage who pulled the trigger. Brown started to walk away according to the account, prompting Wilson to draw his gun and order him to freeze. Brown, the source said, raised his hands in the air, and turned around saying, "What, you're going to shoot me?"

At that point, the 6-foot-4, 292-pound Brown charged Wilson, prompting the officer to fire at least six shots at him, including the fatal bullet that penetrated the top of Brown's skull, according to an independent autopsy conducted at the request of Brown's family.

Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said. He is now "traumatized, scared for his life and his family, injured and terrified" that a grand jury, which began hearing evidence on Wednesday, will "make some kind of example out of him," the source said.

The source also said the dashboard and body cameras, which might have recorded crucial evidence, had been ordered by Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson, but had only recently arrived and had not yet been deployed.

A spokesman for the St. Louis County Police Department, citing the ongoing investigation, declined late Wednesday to say whether Wilson required medical treatment following the altercation.

Edward Magee, spokesman for St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCullough, said the office will not disclose the nature of the evidence it will reveal to a grand jury.

"We'll present every piece of evidence we have, witness statements, et cetera, to the grand jury, and we do not release any evidence or talk about evidence on the case."

Nabil Khattar, CEO of 7Star Industries – which specializes in firearms training for law enforcement and special operations personnel – confirmed that police are typically instructed to use deadly force if in imminent danger of being killed or suffering great bodily injury.

“You may engage a threat with enough force that is reasonably necessary to defend against that danger,” he said.

Wilson is a six-year veteran of the Ferguson police force department, and has no prior disciplinary infringements.


I am sure more clarification will come out, hopefully cooler heads prevail, the looting and shooting will stop, and the facts can be presented without the US attorney putting undue pressure for a wrong conviction of the officer IFhe did the right thing.

As my mom used to say, it will all come out in the wash in the end....lets just wait and see what happens.[/b]

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
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21-08-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
There are a couple threads about this issue. I will summarize my position again.

Multiple witnesses said he was shot unarmed, that is not in dispute. Other than the cop, the witnesses are all saying the same thing with slightly different(irrelevant details) but overlap in that Brown merely turned around to give up and DID NOT rush the cop and was STILL SHOT while trying to give up.

BUT, the reason this is going nuts, is for the same reason Rodney King caused a firestorm and Trevon Martin as well.

In this country blacks are profiled, pulled over, arrested and abused at a much higher rate than any other race, even when they have done nothing wrong.

Now, that does not make this cop a racist. Someone can have social conditioning they are unaware of. But just on the cop training level, this even was a result of that. Cops are trained to assume the worst, they cant even take a simply traffic ticket as being safe, they are trained to assume harm. They are also trained to dominate a situation to keep control.

The story from his captain morphed from "this cop did not know about the store theft" to "He did know about the store theft" back to "he didn't know".

Now either way you still have a dead black teen over what? Jaywalking was the original claim, or murdered over petty theft and misdemeanor assault. As far as that "shove" on that store video, I have seen white teens and white adults do far worse at my own parties, at bars, and frat parties, that would be considered felony assault.

Bottom line, you do not deserve to be murdered over those things. And you most certainly don't deserve death when you are trying to give up.

This cop merely got pissed because those guys didn't respond fast enough to him. The cop grabbed Brown, brown broke away UNARMED, and ran, got shot, knew he was shot, tried give up, and got shot again.

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21-08-2014, 01:12 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2014 01:19 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
(21-08-2014 10:44 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  There are a couple threads about this issue. I will summarize my position again.

Multiple witnesses said he was shot unarmed, that is not in dispute. Other than the cop, the witnesses are all saying the same thing with slightly different(irrelevant details) but overlap in that Brown merely turned around to give up and DID NOT rush the cop and was STILL SHOT while trying to give up.

BUT, the reason this is going nuts, is for the same reason Rodney King caused a firestorm and Trevon Martin as well.

In this country blacks are profiled, pulled over, arrested and abused at a much higher rate than any other race, even when they have done nothing wrong.

Now, that does not make this cop a racist. Someone can have social conditioning they are unaware of. But just on the cop training level, this even was a result of that. Cops are trained to assume the worst, they cant even take a simply traffic ticket as being safe, they are trained to assume harm. They are also trained to dominate a situation to keep control.

The story from his captain morphed from "this cop did not know about the store theft" to "He did know about the store theft" back to "he didn't know".

Now either way you still have a dead black teen over what? Jaywalking was the original claim, or murdered over petty theft and misdemeanor assault. As far as that "shove" on that store video, I have seen white teens and white adults do far worse at my own parties, at bars, and frat parties, that would be considered felony assault.

Bottom line, you do not deserve to be murdered over those things. And you most certainly don't deserve death when you are trying to give up.

This cop merely got pissed because those guys didn't respond fast enough to him. The cop grabbed Brown, brown broke away UNARMED, and ran, got shot, knew he was shot, tried give up, and got shot again.

You bring up some good points;

I am in no way defending the cop as I wasn't there, and don't know the facts, just like no one else who sits in the front row of the public opinion courts nationwide right now. But here are some specifics that we are aware of in the LE community;

"Multiple witnesses said he was shot unarmed, that is not in dispute. Other than the cop, the witnesses are all saying the same thing with slightly different(irrelevant details) but overlap in that Brown merely turned around to give up and DID NOT rush the cop and was STILL SHOT while trying to give up."

Oddly, The most invalid piece of evidence in any case is eyewitness testimony. You would think that would be the opposite. But in fact, personal prejudices, agendas, biases, perspectives make people "see" what they want to see. Many many innocent people sit in jail today because the only evidence presented was eye witness testimony, then we find out 15 years later due to DNA evidence that the accused was in fact innocent. This isn't my opinion, this is a substantiated fact. This is why we (I say we as an ex cop) aren't supposed to do ID line ups anymore, it suggests to the victim they must pick someone, because the assumption is one of the people in the lineup is the suspect. Or the ever popular have the suspect stand next to the cop car, shine a light on him, whiule another cop car arrives a short distance away and the victim in the back seat makes a scene ID of the perp.....invalid, it makes the victim assume the person in the road in handcuffs is the suspect....it predisposes the victim to identify them...you would be surprised how prevalent this is, and how we know about it now in the LE community. NOw what they do in bum fuck georgia or some small town BS police department where 3 of the 4 cops are related...is a whole nother problem. I am talking about big city police is aware of this.

"In this country blacks are profiled, pulled over, arrested and abused at a much higher rate than any other race, even when they have done nothing wrong."

Yup, that is a fact, a sad but true fact...now from a criminology perspective why is that?......like everything in this world, it isnt a simple problem. You know back in the 70s and early 80s when they were putting out BOLOs at muster (Be On The Lookout) they would say something like this, "armed robbery of johnson's jewelry yesterday evening, 2 usuals..." You know what a usual is? or what it used to be as this is a banned term now? African american male 16-24 yo. You know why? Because even though they make up less than 15% of the population, they perform over 60% of all violent crimes, thus the term ...usual. So as a cop, as a judge when everyday you have the same demographic standing in front of you, the slippery slope is you start sticking guilty in your head as soon as they walk in...wrong, but a fact due to the consistent exposure. The court system is racist too, you take a black male who violated law "X" and a white male who violated the same law, both with same background, under the sentencing structure lets say the punishment is 5-10 years, guess what? Statistically the black male will get 8-10, and the white male 5-6 years...fact. Why? consistent exposure leads to automatic presumption of guilt, and the judges are so tired of the recidivism rates, they slam the black males with the higher end of the sentence range...wrong, but a known fact. So the reason they get "harassed" is because statistically they are doing most of the crime, or so the presumption is based on crime rate statistics.

"The story from his captain morphed from "this cop did not know about the store theft" to "He did know about the store theft" back to "he didn't know"."

Clearly idiotic, misinformed statements in the heat of the moment.

"Now either way you still have a dead black teen over what? Jaywalking was the original claim, or murdered over petty theft and misdemeanor assault. As far as that "shove" on that store video, I have seen white teens and white adults do far worse at my own parties, at bars, and frat parties, that would be considered felony assault."

Little bit of a disingenuous statement to be honest. We have a dead person (who cares the color) who allegedly assaulted an officer, and made a move for his gun. The physical evidence thus far shows the officer has injuries consistent with a brutal assault, and if so, was in the right to stop the assault. An assault on an armed officer is not a misdemeanor, it is a felony, and if the officer had died, it would have been a capital murder case. The other crimes this stellar citizen had done previously has little to do with this case except establishes he was a violent person.

"Bottom line, you do not deserve to be murdered over those things. And you most certainly don't deserve death when you are trying to give up."

You assaulting an armed police officer and trying to take his gun is grounds for deadly force, IF that is what happened. The "giving up" perspective is conjecture at this point, regardless of "eyewitness testimony from someone who a) most likely dislikes the police, b) clouded their judgement with their personal biases against the police, c) would most likely love any opportunity to get back at the "system".

"This cop merely got pissed because those guys didn't respond fast enough to him. The cop grabbed Brown, brown broke away UNARMED, and ran, got shot, knew he was shot, tried give up, and got shot again."

Conjecture based on potentially biased "eyewitness testimony".

Again, my point is, the facts will be established, thus far all physical evidence supports the officer's story. Meanwhile, continue to steal tires and burn buildings and toss molotav cocktails at the police because that will make things better. Continue to try to incite a negative response from the police so you can "capture" it on video and get him/her fired. The emotional runaway misinformed, prejudicial public passion opinion laced court cases breath-takingly exploited by the media do little to make this country a better place, or make a fair investigation/resolution in this case. How will everyone feel if the cop's story is true? This cop gets assaulted, beaten, defends himself with deadly force (the moment you hit a cop he has to ascertain the possibility of you knocking him unconscious and getting his gun, a situation that cannot be allowed to happen) and everyone has gone into this racially motivated, anti government, anti cop tirade rioting in the streets and looting over......a violent criminal getting rightfully shot during a violent assault on an armed police officer....I bet if and when he is vindicated, how hard do you think the media will work to undo the damage they did spinning this out of control? Zero, next story....will al sharpton make a public apology for inciting riots? no, will this cop and his family ever be safe again? most likely not, because the ignorant will believe it is a coverup, and want revenge.

The other option is the cop was wrong, over-reacted and shot an unarmed man in the street who had his hands up, if so, he should be successfully and fairly tried for murder.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
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21-08-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
I have to go with the Officers side on this one, autopsies showed witness lied about Brown being shot from behind, what else are they lying about because they want the issue to be racist and hate the police and have their judgement clouded. This may make me sound like an asshole but if he did beat up the officer like it's reported then I don't see why it's wrong for the officer to defend himself, yes maybe he could have done it less violently but when your in a situation like that the adrenaline is getting to you and you act before you think.

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21-08-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
I can see a lot of scenarios where the cop would be justified, and some where he wouldn't. I'll have to look over the case later when evidence is gathered and confirmed to decide my opinion.

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21-08-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
(21-08-2014 10:04 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  As I foretold, the truth will come out in time, always does. More to contemplate:

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.”

Pics? There should be pics of this if he was taken to the hospital for being beaten nearly unconscious. Just release them like they did the shoplifiting video. Or do they need an FOIA request first? And how did he manage to hang out over the body for so long before going to the hospital if he was beaten so badly?

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21-08-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...



I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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21-08-2014, 05:20 PM
RE: Ferguson, Missouri for the past few days...
(21-08-2014 04:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 10:04 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  As I foretold, the truth will come out in time, always does. More to contemplate:

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.”

Pics? There should be pics of this if he was taken to the hospital for being beaten nearly unconscious. Just release them like they did the shoplifiting video. Or do they need an FOIA request first? And how did he manage to hang out over the body for so long before going to the hospital if he was beaten so badly?

I would imagine for his protection and the protection of his family they won't release his picture for some time, I am sure they took pics for evidence which is standard procedure.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens
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