Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
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05-10-2014, 08:05 AM
Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
Fermi paradox means that technologically advanced civilizations don't last long. Does that mean that continuation of human race/family line/DNA is meaningless?
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05-10-2014, 08:13 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
Fermi paradox doesn't "mean" anything. It just says we should have been contacted by other civilizations, given the vastness of space. It makes several assumptions, but there are many possible explanations for such a paradox.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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05-10-2014, 08:17 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2014 08:22 AM by Hafnof.)
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
It seems likely that our daily struggles are ultimately futile, but ultimately only in the sense that once our species is dead our achievements and ideas are likely to forgotten. That doesn't mean our daily struggles are proximally futile. We can live as we see fit and see out our lives as we see fit. We can care and hope for future generations. Ultimate futility need not dent our optimism for the present or for the future.

Concluding proximal futility from ultimate futility is like giving up on music and dancing and pleasure and board games and joy because we know that ultimately we will die one day. Well ultimately we will die. Does that prevent our enjoyment of the present? Need we wallow in pity until the end? No, there is plenty of life left to live. So let's live it. Some would even say that the ultimate futility of it all gives our finite lives meaning in a way that infinite life could not provide. After all, isn't infinite life also ultimately futile?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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05-10-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
Fermi's paradox

It is not helpful to mis-characterize the thing your talking about in the first place and then poorly explain at how you arrive at the conclusion that everything is meaningless.

If we are are the first species with sentience in the universe, does this not give us the most profound meaning imaginable? We are the beginning of sentience, the only way sentient beings can survive will be if we survive. The attribution of meaning is an entirely subjective value judgement that we can derive by intelligent evaluation of this given proposition.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-10-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 08:35 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Fermi's paradox

It is not helpful to mis-characterize the thing your talking about in the first place and then poorly explain at how you arrive at the conclusion that everything is meaningless.

If we are are the first species with sentience in the universe, does this not give us the most profound meaning imaginable? We are the beginning of sentience, the only way sentient beings can survive will be if we survive. The attribution of meaning is an entirely subjective value judgement that we can derive by intelligent evaluation of this given proposition.

First doesn't mean only. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-10-2014, 09:06 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
The Fermi paradox doesn't necessarily mean that...

It simply states that if the galaxy is teeming with advanced civilizations, why don't we hear anything from them...

It could be that they are short lived, or that they're too far away, or a range of possibilities...

But since it's dealing with something that's entirely hypothetical, you can't use it as proof of anything, since we nothing regarding alien life is certain yet.

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05-10-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 08:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 08:35 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Fermi's paradox

It is not helpful to mis-characterize the thing your talking about in the first place and then poorly explain at how you arrive at the conclusion that everything is meaningless.

If we are are the first species with sentience in the universe, does this not give us the most profound meaning imaginable? We are the beginning of sentience, the only way sentient beings can survive will be if we survive. The attribution of meaning is an entirely subjective value judgement that we can derive by intelligent evaluation of this given proposition.

First doesn't mean only. Drinking Beverage

Could you expand upon this thought?

This is the fun thing about Fermi's paradox, you can make a multitude of assumptions about why they aren't here. Or maybe WE are THEY?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-10-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:08 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 08:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  First doesn't mean only. Drinking Beverage

Could you expand upon this thought?

This is the fun thing about Fermi's paradox, you can make a multitude of assumptions about why they aren't here. Or maybe WE are THEY?

Just because we are first (potentially) does not mean we are any more important than any other sentience that could rise. Lets say on Betazed right now there is a group of preindustrial Betazoids who over the next few centuries will not only catch up to us but surpass us, even though they came after us would they not be more important?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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05-10-2014, 09:24 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:16 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 09:08 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Could you expand upon this thought?

This is the fun thing about Fermi's paradox, you can make a multitude of assumptions about why they aren't here. Or maybe WE are THEY?

Just because we are first (potentially) does not mean we are any more important than any other sentience that could rise. Lets say on Betazed right now there is a group of preindustrial Betazoids who over the next few centuries will not only catch up to us but surpass us, even though they came after us would they not be more important?

We should share our smallpox ridden blankets with them, in the name of friendship...

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05-10-2014, 09:24 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:08 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 08:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  First doesn't mean only. Drinking Beverage

Could you expand upon this thought?

This is the fun thing about Fermi's paradox, you can make a multitude of assumptions about why they aren't here. Or maybe WE are THEY?

I am disagreeing with your statement "...the only way sentient beings can survive will be if we survive."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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