Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
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05-10-2014, 09:25 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:16 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 09:08 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Could you expand upon this thought?

This is the fun thing about Fermi's paradox, you can make a multitude of assumptions about why they aren't here. Or maybe WE are THEY?

Just because we are first (potentially) does not mean we are any more important than any other sentience that could rise. Lets say on Betazed right now there is a group of preindustrial Betazoids who over the next few centuries will not only catch up to us but surpass us, even though they came after us would they not be more important?

Yes, but we aren't at the point yet of definitively answering if any life arose anywhere else in the universe. I guess when I said first, perhaps I should have said that we are the only place in the universe that we can say definitively that life exists. Perhaps this is the simplest explanation for why we haven't observed that life exists anywhere else.

My second explanation/speculation would be the universe is really big. Life might only arise in one out of one hundred galaxies, if that is the case, we may never be able to detect it elsewhere, the distances are just too vast.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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05-10-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:25 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 09:16 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Just because we are first (potentially) does not mean we are any more important than any other sentience that could rise. Lets say on Betazed right now there is a group of preindustrial Betazoids who over the next few centuries will not only catch up to us but surpass us, even though they came after us would they not be more important?

Yes, but we aren't at the point yet of definitively answering if any life arose anywhere else in the universe. I guess when I said first, perhaps I should have said that we are the only place in the universe that we can say definitively that life exists. Perhaps this is the simplest explanation for why we haven't observed that life exists anywhere else.

My second explanation/speculation would be the universe is really big. Life might only arise in one out of one hundred galaxies, if that is the case, we may never be able to detect it elsewhere, the distances are just too vast.

The sheer vastness of the Universe is why this "paradox" is not a paradox. Even if Warp Drive was a thing and we could travel at 10 times the speed of light, to get from one side of the universe to the other would take Millions of years (or more didn't check the math). This is not a needle in a haystack it is a pebble in the ocean.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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05-10-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 09:25 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Yes, but we aren't at the point yet of definitively answering if any life arose anywhere else in the universe. I guess when I said first, perhaps I should have said that we are the only place in the universe that we can say definitively that life exists. Perhaps this is the simplest explanation for why we haven't observed that life exists anywhere else.

My second explanation/speculation would be the universe is really big. Life might only arise in one out of one hundred galaxies, if that is the case, we may never be able to detect it elsewhere, the distances are just too vast.

The sheer vastness of the Universe is why this "paradox" is not a paradox. Even if Warp Drive was a thing and we could travel at 10 times the speed of light, to get from one side of the universe to the other would take Millions of years (or more didn't check the math). This is not a needle in a haystack it is a pebble in the ocean.

It's only about 100,000 LY in diameter and 1,000 LY thick. So only thousands, not millions, of years.Thumbsup
Like a Sunday drive. Smile

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05-10-2014, 09:39 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2014 10:00 AM by One Above All.)
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The sheer vastness of the Universe is why this "paradox" is not a paradox. Even if Warp Drive was a thing and we could travel at 10 times the speed of light, to get from one side of the universe to the other would take Millions of years (or more didn't check the math). This is not a needle in a haystack it is a pebble in the ocean.

We don't need to go as far as the Universe. 10x the speed of light means you could travel the diameter of our galaxy in "just" 10,000 years. However, just for comparison, to travel to the edge of the visible Universe at 10x the speed of light, it would take about 5 billion years (I've read estimations that place the diameter of the visible Universe at around 100 billion light-years). The Earth would have been destroyed by the sun before we reached it. Hell, even Andromeda (the closest galaxy to our own, for those of you who don't know that) is 2.5 million light-years away from Earth.

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05-10-2014, 09:40 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  It's only about 100,000 LY in diameter and 1,000 LY thick.

Pretty sure you're thinking of the Milky Way. Consider

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05-10-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:40 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 09:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  It's only about 100,000 LY in diameter and 1,000 LY thick.

Pretty sure you're thinking of the Milky Way. Consider

Oh, right. I misread it. Weeping

The discussion of the Fermi Paradox is typically limited to our galaxy as those numbers are sufficient and they are more tractable.

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05-10-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:39 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 09:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The sheer vastness of the Universe is why this "paradox" is not a paradox. Even if Warp Drive was a thing and we could travel at 10 times the speed of light, to get from one side of the universe to the other would take Millions of years (or more didn't check the math). This is not a needle in a haystack it is a pebble in the ocean.

We don't need to go as far as the Universe. 10x the speed of light means you could travel the diameter of our galaxy in just 10,000 years. However, just for comparison, to travel to the edge of the visible Universe at 10x the speed of light, it would take about 5 billion years (I've read estimations that place the diameter of the visible Universe at around 100 billion light-years). The Earth would have been destroyed by the sun before we reached it. Hell, even Andromeda (the closest galaxy to our own, for those of you who don't know that) is 2.5 million light-years away from Earth.

Reading about the Andromeda galaxy, it really is a far more impressive galaxy than ours, they estimate it has around one trillion stars in it. This makes it the most convenient galaxy to begin our campaign of universal domination. Big Grin

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05-10-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 09:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  The discussion of the Fermi Paradox is typically limited to our galaxy as those numbers are sufficient and they are more tractable.

I don't want to derail the thread, so let's just agree to disagree on one of those things.

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05-10-2014, 11:29 AM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 10:00 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 09:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  The discussion of the Fermi Paradox is typically limited to our galaxy as those numbers are sufficient and they are more tractable.

I don't want to derail the thread, so let's just agree to disagree on one of those things.

What disagreement?

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05-10-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: Fermi paradox and continuation of human race.
(05-10-2014 11:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 10:00 AM)One Above All Wrote:  I don't want to derail the thread, so let's just agree to disagree on one of those things.

What disagreement?

Your "those numbers are sufficient" assertion.

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