Finally building a new gaming rig!
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15-11-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
(09-11-2014 05:25 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I'll hang off on getting a wireless card. I have an adapter thingy that I use on my computer now. It does the trick so I'll give it a go and if it keeps cutting out or slows the interwebz I'll just bite the bullet and buy a wireless card.

I had a USB WiFi dongle. It was fine for browsing the net. Terrible for gaming or downloading anything substantial.

Wireless card is slightly better on all accounts. But, its still usually terrible for gaming.

Just run it wired. It's worth the hassle. Its always worth the hassle. I ran two 100' lines in my place. One for the PS4 in my bedroom, and one for the PC in the office. If you don't have a drop ceiling or can't drill holes in walls, you can still run them by pushing them under the trim.... Sooo goood
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15-11-2014, 12:43 PM
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
(14-11-2014 10:35 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Fear of applying thermal paste is one of the things that keeps me coming back to Intel chips with stock coolers Wink Even then it's still stressful getting those push pins in and correct.

What? I've bought 3 Intel chips in the last 5 years and they always give thermal paste and a separate heat sync... Which is fantastic since that heat sync always gets tossed in the garbage.
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16-11-2014, 06:53 AM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2014 06:58 AM by Hafnof.)
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
The paste has been pre-applied on my last few stock coolers and has more of a solid than a gel or paste. That said I haven't bought a CPU since 2012.

My computer has actually been suffering a little as the weather has warmed up this year. Half a can of compressed air later my computer is maintaining a maximum of 96°C rather than hitting the CPU limit of 105°C during video renders. Also, upping the target temperature for the CPU from 50°C to 57°C is making for a significantly quieter system in the current Brisbane weather. I'd consider getting a nice cooler, maybe a simple self-contained water cooler... but I kind of feel that extending the life of a two year old CPU defeats the purpose: If I'm going to upgrade the cooler I'd want to think about a bigger system upgrade and I'm not hitting any real capacity limits yet (even married to a four year old GPU) so it would take a major component failure to justify... so like I said upgrading the cooler would defeat the purpose Wink

I'm not at all a serious gamer and don't have a 4K display to worry about (1440x768 is still standard, right? No ). My most taxing tasks on most days are software development and 1080p video rendering. I'll admit that video rendering is something that I wouldn't mind seeing a significant speed boost on, but I think that would come down mostly to CPU grunt which doesn't seem to have moved much in the last few years.

My machine is the main house server, managing my play software development projects, databases, media server, my main workstation, etc. My priorities for upgrade at the moment would be as follows. My last major purchase was October 2012, and before that early 2010. I've had my current monitor for about as long as I have been married:
* An ergonomic upgrade: Better+multiple monitors[1], maybe better chair, maybe better-suited desk. Maybe I could justify a graphics card upgrade to ensure good connector choices. A GTX970 would definitely help me with my video editing[2]. Right? No. I was actually kneeling as I wrote this given my current chair etc. That's more comfortable most of the time than sitting.
* More CPU grunt[3] for video renders, married to maybe faster and maybe more RAM than my current 16GB[4] of 1866MHz 10-11-10-30-2N.
* Better cooling and case design[5]. Maybe upgrade my current PSU to a slightly bigger (say 650W) modular model for better cable management[6]. Yes, I have been watching too much of Linus Tech Tips. Even though I'm not an overclocker the heat and humidity in my part of the world I think do justify some more attention to cooling than I have given in previous builds.
* Maybe a storage system upgrade. I currently have an array of 6 disks, all RAID1 (mirror). My SSDs at 120GB are getting are a little bit pokey. I could probably retire my old 2GB array that I currently use for some backup and archive purposes and just run my fairly underutilised 3GB array. I've kind of been waiting for btrfs to become the default or at least well-supported out of the box choice in Ubuntu before making on major changes in this area though. I've been waiting a long time for this.

My wife has been asking me what I want for Christmas. Maybe I should kick off this whole ergonomic upgrade thing. Hrrm. Are 4K video cameras standard consumer products yet? That's something else I wouldn't say no to. I prefer to stay a little ahead of the curve on the media capture side of things so the work doesn't look completely crap in two or four years time.

[1] Current monitor: http://www.asus.com/Monitors_Projectors/PW191/
[2] Current GPU: (seriously, this is still better than the built-in Intel GPU core. barely) http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/EN9800GTDI1GD3/
[3] Current CPU: http://ark.intel.com/products/65719/Inte...o-3_90-GHz
[4] Current RAM: 16GB of http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-1866c10d-16gsr
[5] Current Case: http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-9f/ (mine is the 9fb, some changes have been made since my revision)
[6] Current PSU: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/C...Review/540
[7] Current SSD: http://ark.intel.com/products/67287/Inte...s-25nm-MLC
[8] Current Magnetic storage: http://www.wdc.com/global/products/specs...language=1

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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17-11-2014, 01:19 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2014 02:14 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
(16-11-2014 06:53 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  (1440x768 is still standard, right? No ).

Nope. My old machine from 2008, running an Intel Core 2 Duo and an EVGA 8800GT 512MB had a Viewsonic monitor at 1440x900 (also known as 900P or HD+, the resolution that Assassin's Creed: Unity will be running at 30FPS on the 'next gen' consoles).


(16-11-2014 06:53 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  My most taxing tasks on most days are software development and 1080p video rendering. I'll admit that video rendering is something that I wouldn't mind seeing a significant speed boost on, but I think that would come down mostly to CPU grunt which doesn't seem to have moved much in the last few years.

But those professional applications are optimized to use multiple cores and Hyper-Threading, so you could see significant gains by moving from a basic quad core system to a 6 or 8 core CPU. AMD tends to be core happy up front, while extra cores and Hyper-Threading come at a premium on Intel's i5, i7, and Xenon chips.



(16-11-2014 06:53 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  My machine is the main house server, managing my play software development projects, databases, media server, my main workstation, etc. My priorities for upgrade at the moment would be as follows. My last major purchase was October 2012, and before that early 2010. I've had my current monitor for about as long as I have been married:
* An ergonomic upgrade: Better+multiple monitors[1], maybe better chair, maybe better-suited desk. Maybe I could justify a graphics card upgrade to ensure good connector choices. A GTX970 would definitely help me with my video editing[2]. Right? No. I was actually kneeling as I wrote this given my current chair etc. That's more comfortable most of the time than sitting.
* More CPU grunt[3] for video renders, married to maybe faster and maybe more RAM than my current 16GB[4] of 1866MHz 10-11-10-30-2N.
* Better cooling and case design[5]. Maybe upgrade my current PSU to a slightly bigger (say 650W) modular model for better cable management[6]. Yes, I have been watching too much of Linus Tech Tips. Even though I'm not an overclocker the heat and humidity in my part of the world I think do justify some more attention to cooling than I have given in previous builds.
* Maybe a storage system upgrade. I currently have an array of 6 disks, all RAID1 (mirror). My SSDs at 120GB are getting are a little bit pokey. I could probably retire my old 2GB array that I currently use for some backup and archive purposes and just run my fairly underutilised 3GB array. I've kind of been waiting for btrfs to become the default or at least well-supported out of the box choice in Ubuntu before making on major changes in this area though. I've been waiting a long time for this.

My wife has been asking me what I want for Christmas. Maybe I should kick off this whole ergonomic upgrade thing. Hrrm. Are 4K video cameras standard consumer products yet? That's something else I wouldn't say no to. I prefer to stay a little ahead of the curve on the media capture side of things so the work doesn't look completely crap in two or four years time.

[1] Current monitor: http://www.asus.com/Monitors_Projectors/PW191/
[2] Current GPU: (seriously, this is still better than the built-in Intel GPU core. barely) http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/EN9800GTDI1GD3/
[3] Current CPU: http://ark.intel.com/products/65719/Inte...o-3_90-GHz
[4] Current RAM: 16GB of http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-1866c10d-16gsr
[5] Current Case: http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-9f/ (mine is the 9fb, some changes have been made since my revision)
[6] Current PSU: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/C...Review/540
[7] Current SSD: http://ark.intel.com/products/67287/Inte...s-25nm-MLC
[8] Current Magnetic storage: http://www.wdc.com/global/products/specs...language=1

Well, you've got a 4 core Hyper-Threaded i7, but ironically enough it doesn't appear to support RAM any faster than 1600MHz. Are you sure you are fully utilizing your RAM?

That being said, without upgrading your motherboard out of an LGA-1155 socket and into something newer (LGA1150, LGA2011, LGA2011-3 ), you've almost capped your performance with your current i7-3770.


[1] If you're doing professional 1080p editing, shouldn't you be able to at least review it at it's native resolution? 1080p monitors are really cheap, and a decent one can be had for under $150. Like this Acer H6 Series, a 21.5" 1080p IPS display for $117 at Newegg .

[2] Yeah, that's old. Depending on what you want to budget and where, it's probably time for an upgrade. If you had $350 to spare and planned on running a multi-display workstation, then Display Port is the way to go, and the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE 3X has three of them, along with a DVI-D, DVI-I, and a HDMI 2.0 port. This card supports up to 4 monitors on it's own.

[3] The current standard for Intel professional consumer level is the LGA2011-3 socket, and the cheapest 6 core available for it is the sub $400, 3.3GHz i7-5820K, an unlocked K series SKU (so you can overclock it) 6 core workhorse with Hyper-Threading and a 15MB L3 Cache. That being said, it's TDP is almost double your current i7 (140W vs 77W).

[4] If you did upgrade to a LGA2011-3 socket with a X99 chipset (new motherboard, hooray!), you're now in DDR4 territory. 16GB of Corsair Vengeance LPX at 2400MHz, 14-16-16-31 timing, and a CAS latency of 14. At $289, it's the cheapest DDR4 at that capacity and speed combined with that low of a latency.

[5] That looks like a really nice case, my only gripe would be that I don't like exposed metal on the interior, even if it is nice finished aluminum. I prefer coated interiors myself, I think they not only look better, but they decrease the chance of an unintentional electrical short. Want something good looking, quiet, with a black interior, plenty of space, and under $100? Check out the Corsair Carbide 330R. While it comes with two 120mm fans, I'd repalce the one 120mm in the front with a pair of Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition fans.

[6] Not a bad PSU, but if you want a beefier CPU and GPU, you'll need more wattage. I'd recommend a Corsair RM750, a fully modular and 80+ Gold Certified PSU with a zero-RPM fan mode.


Now assuming you reused your case, storage drives, and monitor, you can upgrade to a decent X99 workstation for little over $1100.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/EvolutionK...ved/7t8xFT

Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor
Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Asus X99-A ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory
Corsair RM 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

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17-11-2014, 01:24 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2014 01:52 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
(15-11-2014 07:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 07:21 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  It will be in a well ventilated area.


Wow installing the heatsink was fucking stressful. Never used thermal paste in my life so that was an adventure too...


So anyway, question. My RAM is that ripsaw one, 8gb, 16000mhz, ddr3 and the RAM from my last computer is 2x2GB, 16000mhz, ddr3.
If I was to put in the extra 4GB from my last computer, would that slow this one down because of their age? (couple years old).

Nope.


Can you mix RAM? Sure. Should you? Probably not, and unless the RAM has matching settings (same DDR standard, same timing, same latency, same voltage), it probably won't work anyways.

What Are The Rules On Mixing Two Different Types Of RAM? - Lifehacker.com

You are right about mixing different RAM modules — if there’s one thing you absolutely can’t mix, it’s DDR with DDR2, or DDR2 with DDR3 and so on (they won’t even fit in the same slots). RAM is pretty complicated, but there are a few things you can mix and a few things you shouldn’t. In any case, I don’t recommend it. If you’re buying new RAM, you’re probably going to make your life a lot easier by buying the exact same model as you currently have in your machine. That said, if you absolutely have to mix them, here are some general guidelines.

You want to make sure each stick has the same cas latency, timings and voltage. While you can tweak these settings in the BIOS to make the two sticks match (we briefly showed you how when we discussed overclocking your processor), I don’t know why you’d want to. You’d have to spend quite a bit of time messing around with it all and probably underclock at least one of your DIMMs in the process — and there’s no guarantee it would work even then. Really, it’s a lot more trouble than its worth.

Mixing RAM speed, however, is a slightly different matter. In theory, if you had to, you could mix, say, this Patriot model (DDR3 1333) with this Corsair model (DDR3 1600), since they have the same cas latency, timings and recommended voltage. Your motherboard would probably just automatically underclock the faster one and you wouldn’t run into any problems. Thus, it’s possible, but note that when you start mixing speeds, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so to speak. Your RAM will only run at the speed of the slowest DIMM, unless you wanted to overclock the others.

None of this necessarily guarantees functioning RAM, of course — you may be greeted with the Blue Screen of Death if your DIMMs just don’t like each other (or your motherboard doesn’t like one of the DIMMs). Most of the time, though, your computer will run fine if you mix different brands, sizes and speeds. If you’re just doing it to cobble together a second PC from old parts and don’t want to spend any money, that’s fine — but if you’re adding RAM to your current computer, I’d recommend getting the exact same type of RAM you already have installed. Memory is cheap enough nowadays that you’re probably better off just buying some new DIMMs and calling it a day — that’s the only way you’re going to get the best performance out of your PC.

Sincerely,
Lifehacker

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17-11-2014, 01:33 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2014 01:51 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
(15-11-2014 12:03 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  
(08-11-2014 01:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  An i7 4690K, with a Corsair H110 liquid CPU cooler, 16GB of Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR3 @ 2400MHz, a Samsung 250GB SSD, a Seagate 1TB HDD, and an EVGA GTX780Ti (the former nVidia single-GPU flagship card) draws just shy of 480W, and that's before overclocking. A dual SLI of those card bumps consumption up to just shy of 730W (same with a single card dual-GPU Radeon R9 295X2 8GB), while a dual-GPU card like the Titan Z brings it just under 600W, and replacing it with a single GTX980 (the new nVidia single GPU flagship) drops consumption down to sub 390W, and a GTX970 drop consumption down further to below 370W.


The most recent generations of GPU's have been very power hungry, which is now one of the lead selling points for the cooler and more efficient GTX900 series. A quad TITAN SLI setup would have needed a 1200W~1500W PSU for an absolute cutting edge insane rig (think Large Pixel Collider).

Large Pixel Collider Setup (copying their build via pcpartpicker.com)
w/ dual nVidia TITAN Z (4 GPU's total) - 1092W
w/ dual AMD R9 295X2 (4 GPU's total) - 1342W
w/ quad nVidia GTX780Ti - 1342W
w/ quad nVidia TITAN BLACK - 1342W
w/ quad AMD R9 290X - 1542W
w/ quad nVidia GTX980 - 1002W

Also remember that these are with Intel CPU's, as the current crop of high-end AMD chips are heat spewing energy hogs, much like their high-end GPU cards. The i7 4690K (4.4GHz, 4 core) enthusiast CPU is rated for 88W, while the i7 4690X (3.6GHz, 6 core) from the Large Pixel Collider is rated at 130W. The AMD FX9590 is a 4.7GHz, 8 core processor that requires at least 220W by itself, and it's still only a $300 enthusiast grade CPU like the i7 4690K (the 88W one, slightly more than 1/3 the power usage).

All units are vastly over rated for power and they don't scale linearly; ie a two 150 watt rated gpus do not produce together 300 watts. If you record the amount of power actually coming out of your socket it is actually very, very small. Keep in mind a machine that actually took 700 watts to run would be the practical equivalent of an electric space heater... You can buy whatever you want (you being the general 'you'). I have seen a lot of real world tests and 200-300 watts is very typical for even enthusiast grade systems.

[Image: 02-Power-Consumption-Asus-R9-290X-DirectCU-II.png]

GPU consumption alone averages 244 watts on a Radeon R9 290X, with spikes up to 389 watts during gaming load. If you were running a 300-400W power supply for your entire system, those power spikes would trip fail safes in the PSU and shut down your computer. Now also take into account that anyone with the money for a R9 290X also has it tied to a decent AMD chip that itself also draws another 100-200 watts on average by itself, and a 200-300W PSU simply can't cut it. Even the brand new GTX970's and their more power efficient Maxwell architecture can draw upwards of 250 watts with sub 300 watt spikes under full load. Because it's not just about average wattage or idle usage, it's about having enough headroom so that when you have an overclocked system under load and a power spike comes through, your whole system doesn't crash.



http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/gef...iew,4.html


Power Consumption

Let's have a look at how much power draw we measure with this graphics card installed. The methodology: We have a device constantly monitoring the power draw from the PC. We simply stress the GPU, not the processor. The before and after wattage will tell us roughly how much power a graphics card is consuming under load. Our test system is based on a power hungry six-core Intel Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition Sandy Bridge-E based setup on the X79 chipset platform. This setup is overclocked to 4.60 GHz on all cores. Next to that we have energy saving functions disabled for this motherboard and processor (to ensure consistent benchmark results). We'll be calculating the GPU power consumption here, not the total PC power consumption.

Measured power consumption GTX 970

System in IDLE = 120 Watts
System Wattage with GPU in FULL Stress = 274 Watts
Difference (GPU load) = 154 Watts
Add average IDLE wattage ~10 Watts
Subjective obtained GPU power consumption = ~ 164 Watts


Measured power consumption GTX 970 2-way SLI

System in IDLE = 123 Watts
System Wattage with GPU in FULL Stress = 439 Watts
Difference (GPU load) = 316 Watts
Add average IDLE wattage ~10 Watts
Subjective obtained GPU power consumption = ~ 326 Watts


Here is Guru3D's power supply recommendation:

GeForce GTX 970 or 980 - On your average system the card requires you to have a 400~500 Watt power supply unit.
GeForce GTX 970 or 980 in 2-way SLI - On your average system the cards require you to have an 700~800 Watt power supply unit as minimum.


Now I have a Corsair HX850 PSU because I have an overclocked i5-4690K (from 3.5GHz stock up to 4.3GHz stable), and a pair of EVGA Geforce GTX970 FTW Edition factory overclocked GPU's.

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17-11-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
Just to add my two cents:

Hafnof, your CPU is perfectly fine for the time being. It should handle anything you throw at it. If you want more speed, you can go for the 5820K as EK stated, but if you want to save money, stay on the i7 you have and get yourself a water cooler for the heat during the summer. Also, your memory is not an issue.

What you do want is to upgrade your GPU and monitor. Depending on what application you have, you can use GPU rendering options to greatly improve your rendering times. Then, you have the monitor: go for an IPS 1440p monitor. It'll give you room to edit 1080p videos accurately and more pixels for games.
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17-11-2014, 03:41 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2014 03:46 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
(15-11-2014 05:47 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  


Yeah, their top-end Game-On build is very similar to the rig I just built for myself.

Intel i5-4690K, Corsair H100i CPU cooler, PNY Optima 240GB SSD (boot), PNY XLR8 480GB SSD (gaming), Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD (storage), ASUS Z97-A motherboard, 16GB of Corsair Vengeance RAM @ 1600MHz, Corsair HX850 PSU, 2x EVGA GTX970 FTW Editions in SLI, Corsair Carbide Air-540 case).

Later upgrades include a move up to a Broadwell i7 in a year or so from now, the addition of a 2TB+ Western Digital Black HDD for games that won't see tangible benefits from an SSD install, and maybe a Blu-Ray drive if I can get a decent one for under $30.

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17-11-2014, 03:57 AM
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
(17-11-2014 01:19 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(16-11-2014 06:53 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  My most taxing tasks on most days are software development and 1080p video rendering. I'll admit that video rendering is something that I wouldn't mind seeing a significant speed boost on, but I think that would come down mostly to CPU grunt which doesn't seem to have moved much in the last few years.

But those professional applications are optimized to use multiple cores and Hyper-Threading, so you could see significant gains by moving from a basic quad core system to a 6 or 8 core CPU. AMD tends to be core happy up front, while extra cores and Hyper-Threading come at a premium on Intel's i5, i7, and Xenon chips.

I was interested in the 6 and 8 core AMD CPU's. But then I found that they aren't proper cores. Each pair of cores share the same floating point unit processor which to my mind is useless. All my simulations use floating point numbers. Video editing will be the same.

To be honest I have trouble thinking up many applications that would benefit from extra cores which don't rely on floating point numbers being crunched. The best I can think of is a webserver and most of those are professional standard relying on Intel's superior energy performance to keep costs down.
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17-11-2014, 06:42 AM
RE: Finally building a new gaming rig!
Regarding the RAM, I was just trying to be cheeky and get an extra 4gb. It wasn't displaying anything to my TV and after a quick google search I found I could have mismatched RAM, removed the old RAM and it works fine on the ripsaw.
I'm happy with 8GB anyway. I might get another 8GB at a later date when I upgrade my new machine.

I'm loving it by the way. Haven't even gotten around to overclocking the cpu (been too busy installing and playing games) yet.
It runs EU4 so smoothly, oh so so smoothly. And games that would be laggy (due to crappy laptop) on the lowest settings possible I can now play smooth as a babies bottom on ultra high (ie; Skyrim, EU4, Blackguards, Expeditions Conquistador, Eador, World of Tanks, War Thunder etc... Not so much the total war games though, Shogun 2 was very well optimized and played very well on my laptop... but obviously now it's godly awesome). I can actually play games I couldn't otherwise, Rome 2 TW, Wasteland 2 (if you haven't played this, play it, it's amazeballs awesome), Kerbal Space Program (which is very poorly optimized I might add) etc... Gonna give Arma 3 a go later.
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