Finally leaving my church!
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05-07-2012, 06:57 AM
 
RE: Finally leaving my church!
What a strange system: paying taxes to support the Church. Oh well, to each (country) his own.

Here in the U.S., they have to con the money out of you.
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05-07-2012, 08:28 AM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
So here is my question, do church's only get as much financial support from the state as is being paid in by voluntarily taxed members?
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05-07-2012, 11:08 AM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
Hi Leomas, sounds like you reasoned things out for yourself pretty well. It's good to have you here.

The system in your country isn't all that different than here in the US; here religious organizations and churches are all tax exempt. That's some big money that isn't going to the welfare of the citizenry, but into someone's very deep pockets. It's crazy.

Switzerland - wow - the beautiful Alps! My uncle lived there with his family for a few years and my cousin speaks fluent German as a result, but I know there are different areas that speak French and Italian... just curious, what is your main language?

Welcome to the forum. Smile

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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05-07-2012, 11:52 AM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
(05-07-2012 02:59 AM)Filox Wrote:  
(03-07-2012 01:01 PM)Leomas Wrote:  I thought about it once already a year ago, I even filled out the generator, but unfortunately my computer, where I saved it onto stopped working that day and that kinda threw me off Confused




And you stopped believing in God after this? WTH man?!?

Big Grin Big Grin
No, wth are you talking about, I stated earlier, that I have been an atheist since 3 years, so around 2 years before wanting to quit my church. (and it's done now btw^^)
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05-07-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
(05-07-2012 11:52 AM)Leomas Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 02:59 AM)Filox Wrote:  And you stopped believing in God after this? WTH man?!?

Big Grin Big Grin
No, wth are you talking about, I stated earlier, that I have been an atheist since 3 years, so around 2 years before wanting to quit my church. (and it's done now btw^^)

Ha! Filox loves to demonstrate his sarcastic "fear" of the al-mighty! Sadcryface2 Laughat

We're very used to each other around here ...and kind of lazy.... sometimes we forget a few things might not quite translate well over the wide world of the interwebz. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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06-07-2012, 05:25 AM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
(05-07-2012 08:28 AM)Superluminal Wrote:  So here is my question, do church's only get as much financial support from the state as is being paid in by voluntarily taxed members?
No, there's a fixed amount you have to pay -.-
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06-07-2012, 05:27 AM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
(05-07-2012 11:08 AM)kim Wrote:  Hi Leomas, sounds like you reasoned things out for yourself pretty well. It's good to have you here.

The system in your country isn't all that different than here in the US; here religious organizations and churches are all tax exempt. That's some big money that isn't going to the welfare of the citizenry, but into someone's very deep pockets. It's crazy.

Switzerland - wow - the beautiful Alps! My uncle lived there with his family for a few years and my cousin speaks fluent German as a result, but I know there are different areas that speak French and Italian... just curious, what is your main language?

Welcome to the forum. Smile
Well, I live in the north of Switzerland, so the Alps are pretty far away XD
And my main language is German, but I also speak (a bit) French and English (obviously) as we have to learn those in school.
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06-07-2012, 05:29 AM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
Unsurprisingly my priest didn't accept my decision without having to write a disappointed (angry) letter, to get me back. If anyone is interested in a translated version, I can do it.
And he wants a discussion, which I can transcribe too if you would like to see it.
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06-07-2012, 06:48 AM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
(06-07-2012 05:29 AM)Leomas Wrote:  Unsurprisingly my priest didn't accept my decision without having to write a disappointed (angry) letter, to get me back. If anyone is interested in a translated version, I can do it.
And he wants a discussion, which I can transcribe too if you would like to see it.
Greatly interested. By the way, welcome to the forums, I hope you have a nice time here.

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06-07-2012, 09:21 AM
RE: Finally leaving my church!
First I have to say a few things:
He calls me an academic because I'm in grammar school (Gymnasium).
The letter I sent him was generated on atheismus.ch. It was a bit harsh, but not insulting and very professional. It basically said, that I want to immediately leave the church don't want any more documents, want to be deleted out of the baptismal register and don't want any conversion attempts.

OK, here we go:

Dear Mister Gasser

Not only with regret, but with horror have I taken note of your letter, in which you tell me that you want to leave the church. To leave the church is a legitimate wish, but your tone shows a lot.

Your letter seems inquisitorial and very alienating in this time, where openness and tolerance are very important. It's frightening to take notice of how a young man, as you, who even has a certain education can be so intolerant, one sided, out of whichever reason prejudiced and to speak in a Christian jargon dogmatic. Especially of you, an "intellectual" I would have expected more objectivity. When I studied in university from 1994 to 2000 we saw value in dialogue and interdisciplinary discourse. Intellectual achievements, in which today's society doesn't seem to take value in, as can be seen in your letter. In our time is parroting and downloading obviously in and individual thinking forbidden, but this shows a real academic.

I can feel nothing and really nothing of a discussion or discourse in your letter. On the contrary you behave exactly the way you and a lot of people today say the church behaves.

If you really had the courage to deal with today's church, you would be astounded in what the church does in terms of education, development and social work here and everywhere. It does great things for normal people, academics and handicapped people even in dangerous environments.

What have you done in those terms? I would be interested in which good things you have done for other people, except writing this letter, of which not even a resident of this village could get an advantage. As your valuable church taxes, which are solitary taxes, you could have helped here in Wegenstetten handicapped people. But on this you don't seem to put any value.


In contrary to you I am ready to talk to every person. While doing that I am gifted over and over again. Dialogue and discourse are achievements of our Judeo-Christian way of thinking and conceiving the world, as only like this we can discover, how exciting encounters with other people, not over Facebook, but in person can be. Where it isn't about forcing your opinions on others, but to be enriched by them.


I pray for you, that you will finally awaken out of you bubble and become mentally of age. So you conceive the great things the church does in the world, in contrary to all those who blaspheme and leave the church. He then goes on to tell me a quote to further show me how blind I am.

Please arrive as student and as human in the 21. century, it would make me happy...


Then he bribes me by saying he would help me pay for the participation on the World Youth Day 2013 in Rio.

The bold and colored parts are showed by me to illustrate some points:

I can't even be sure, if he officially removed my from the church's registers.
The red points are mainly to intimidate me and are pretty insulting, especially as I don't know him, or the other way around and he couldn't have concluded these points out of my letter, as I neither said any reasons why I wanted to leave, nor did I say something against the church.
The green points are the opposite, they want to tell me how great I am.
Those are the points where you just have to think: This is a priest, he claims the church actually has real discussions about what it does, which would imply changing, that they don't force their opinions on others, he says I'm in a bubble and not him (which is not a rare argument, but a stupid one) and that the church was progressive.
Here he takes some points in my letter (some of which I never said) and puts them on the whole society/ on everyone who leaves the church.
I never tried to.
Here he just tries to make me feel bad.
Here he just bribes me.









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