Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
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27-01-2015, 10:43 AM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
I have also thought of reading the the entire bible in order to better be able to argue with theists, but when I think about it, I really have no desire to put in the time required to learn it well enough to truly argue from a position of knowledge with theists. The last time I tried to read the bible was about 27 years ago in graduate school as a last ditch effort to find some inspiration in it. I randomly picked a page and it so happened it was the one about Jesus saying that if you look at a woman lustfully, you should cut out your eye... I quickly came to the realization that if the bible was correct, then all straight men would be blind while all gay men would be dead. I haven't looked back since.
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27-01-2015, 01:12 PM (This post was last modified: 27-01-2015 01:24 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
(26-01-2015 04:32 PM)Dahlia Wrote:  Although I hear this is beginning to change, Bible reading has not traditionally been a huge part of daily life for most Catholics. So besides the weekly readings at Mass and the little bit of skimming I did every now and then, I did not really study the Bible when I was a believer. And I didn't need to read the whole Bible in order to eventually figure out that it's nothing but mythology with some historical names and places thrown in. But after nearly six years as an atheist, I recently decided to read it cover to cover, just to see what it's like when you no longer read it with "God glasses" (thank you to Seth for this very applicable phrase).

I'm about halfway through Exodus, so I've barely made a dent. But I am already astounded by how little I knew. For example, if I had actually read the story of Moses closely when I was a believer, I might have noticed that God doesn't actually send the plagues in a desperate attempt to rescue his beloved Israelites from the ever-stubborn Pharaoh. Actually, he manipulates Pharaoh like a puppet master in order to demonstrate how big and powerful he is. At the expense of innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Am I surprised? Not at all. I always thought the God of the Old Testament seemed harsh and vindictive. But I relied on the excuses of the apologists, what they said about the "New Covenant," about not taking everything in the Bible literally, and blah blah blah. How liberating it is to read a story like that and not have to worry about how the God of love and peace could be so horrible.



Here is a challenge. Read the first paragraph of John, where it says what god is, ie., the Word.

Then read Matthew 7 in which it says "do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Then read the bit, not sure where, that says that Jesus told his disciples that only they knew the "secret" of the religion and that everyone else had to be taught with parables. And, the bit where Jesus "sighs" and says that "this generation" will have no "signs".

Which makes the core concepts of the NT the "logos" and a moral philosophy based on the golden rule.

So, all the parables are just explanations of this principle, derived from "reason" and the rest is either parables or "signs" which, it seems from what Jesus says, are unimportant.

Reading the Old Testament for me is reading a pseudo history of people who think they are descended from the Keltoi. Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees, which would make him, and the entire Jewish people, Aryans. Well, that is odd because DNA studies from Johns Hopkins by a Jewish geneticist says the same thing: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/20...pathizers/ http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.v...nazi-Jews/

Which puts a whole new slant on the idea that they are the "chosen people". Ouch!
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27-01-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
(27-01-2015 09:48 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 07:30 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Spoiler Alert ----

They kill off one of the main characters - but, like a bad episode of Dallas - he comes back from the dead....


...

But then the actor of said main character realizes the book jumped the shark, so he leaves for good. The book then devolves into various spin-offs of the supporting characters, who tell their side of things, make differing claims about the imminent return of the main character, and attempt to sell merchandise.

So Christianity is like Joanie Loves Chachi?

[Image: Joanie_Loves_Chachijjghhjhyuyuyu.JPG]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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27-01-2015, 08:04 PM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
(27-01-2015 07:23 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(26-01-2015 04:32 PM)Dahlia Wrote:  I'm about halfway through Exodus, so I've barely made a dent. But I am already astounded by how little I knew. For example, if I had actually read the story of Moses closely when I was a believer, I might have noticed that God doesn't actually send the plagues in a desperate attempt to rescue his beloved Israelites from the ever-stubborn Pharaoh. Actually, he manipulates Pharaoh like a puppet master in order to demonstrate how big and powerful he is. At the expense of innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Yeah, there's a big difference between reading what the Bible says and what the apologists say.
Oh there's a gigantic footnote for the first instance of God "hardening Pharaoh's heart." Surprise, surprise. Tongue

(27-01-2015 08:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  The first and last time I read the bible I read it front to back, and I was 10.

Very bad fairy tales.
I'd like to think I would have seen through the façade if I read the Bible closely as a child, but I can't honestly say. I have much admiration for people who were able to reject the myths and superstition as kids.
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27-01-2015, 08:26 PM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
(27-01-2015 08:04 PM)Dahlia Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 07:23 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Yeah, there's a big difference between reading what the Bible says and what the apologists say.
Oh there's a gigantic footnote for the first instance of God "hardening Pharaoh's heart." Surprise, surprise. Tongue

Which is a gigantic ass pull, because the Bible is exceptionally specific when it says why God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Exodus 10:1-3
Quote:10 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go in to Pharaoh; for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them, 2 and that you may tell in the hearing of your son and of your son’s son how I have made sport of the Egyptians and what signs I have done among them; that you may know that I am the Lord.

3 So Moses and Aaron went in to Pharaoh, and said to him, “Thus says the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, ‘How long will you refuse to humble yourself before me? Let my people go, that they may serve me.”

Seriously. He says it point blank. Foot note or not, God hardened his heart so that he could roll in and wreck his shit. I've heard people bicker over the use of the phrase "hardened his heart" and tried to down play that, but in reality, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he called him names, baked him a pizza, or fleemed his floom. Anything you put in there still shows that God did X, so he could punish Pharaoh.
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28-01-2015, 12:37 AM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
(27-01-2015 08:26 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(27-01-2015 08:04 PM)Dahlia Wrote:  Oh there's a gigantic footnote for the first instance of God "hardening Pharaoh's heart." Surprise, surprise. Tongue

Which is a gigantic ass pull, because the Bible is exceptionally specific when it says why God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Exodus 10:1-3
Quote:10 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go in to Pharaoh; for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may show these signs of mine among them, 2 and that you may tell in the hearing of your son and of your son’s son how I have made sport of the Egyptians and what signs I have done among them; that you may know that I am the Lord.

3 So Moses and Aaron went in to Pharaoh, and said to him, “Thus says the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, ‘How long will you refuse to humble yourself before me? Let my people go, that they may serve me.”

Seriously. He says it point blank. Foot note or not, God hardened his heart so that he could roll in and wreck his shit. I've heard people bicker over the use of the phrase "hardened his heart" and tried to down play that, but in reality, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he called him names, baked him a pizza, or fleemed his floom. Anything you put in there still shows that God did X, so he could punish Pharaoh.

Agreed. Since modern Catholic tradition does not support a literal interpretation of the entire Bible, the apologists can always argue that you have to consider the cultural and historical context, which, as we all know, is a blatant cop-out. If they were willing to fully consider the context in which the books of the Bible were written, they might see a collection of stories and poetry rather than a holy book. Maybe it's the former literature student in me, but when I put aside my frustration with and bitterness toward religion, I have to admit that some of the stories are pretty interesting (emphasis on "some").
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28-01-2015, 08:31 AM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
(27-01-2015 12:32 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  The begats are the best part. At least someone is getting laid.
Every 100 years or so.Laugh out load

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28-01-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
I never wondered why people always looked up to Jacob. He was such a scumbag.




"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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28-01-2015, 11:49 AM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
(26-01-2015 04:32 PM)Dahlia Wrote:  Although I hear this is beginning to change, Bible reading has not traditionally been a huge part of daily life for most Catholics. So besides the weekly readings at Mass and the little bit of skimming I did every now and then, I did not really study the Bible when I was a believer. And I didn't need to read the whole Bible in order to eventually figure out that it's nothing but mythology with some historical names and places thrown in. But after nearly six years as an atheist, I recently decided to read it cover to cover, just to see what it's like when you no longer read it with "God glasses" (thank you to Seth for this very applicable phrase).

I'm about halfway through Exodus, so I've barely made a dent. But I am already astounded by how little I knew. For example, if I had actually read the story of Moses closely when I was a believer, I might have noticed that God doesn't actually send the plagues in a desperate attempt to rescue his beloved Israelites from the ever-stubborn Pharaoh. Actually, he manipulates Pharaoh like a puppet master in order to demonstrate how big and powerful he is. At the expense of innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Am I surprised? Not at all. I always thought the God of the Old Testament seemed harsh and vindictive. But I relied on the excuses of the apologists, what they said about the "New Covenant," about not taking everything in the Bible literally, and blah blah blah. How liberating it is to read a story like that and not have to worry about how the God of love and peace could be so horrible.

Having just seen Exodus: Gods and Kings last night at the dollar theatre, I need to tell you, it is evident Pharoah had a bad attitude and didn't need to be "adjusted" by God.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-01-2015, 12:10 PM
RE: Finally reading the Bible cover to cover
(28-01-2015 11:49 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Having just seen Exodus: Gods and Kings last night at the dollar theatre, I need to tell you, it is evident Pharoah had a bad attitude and didn't need to be "adjusted" by God.

Yes, because obviously the movie is able to accurately portray the statements and actions of an unidentified egyptian pharoah at an unidentified point in time as part of an event for which there is no evidence.

The question remaining is why the bible says "And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:"... it is not only clear that god DID "adjust" the pharaoh but that he did it specifically in order to show off. What a fucking dick.

Then again, fiction doesn't really have to make complete sense.

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