Fine tuning
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31-01-2016, 04:23 AM
RE: Fine tuning
(31-01-2016 03:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(31-01-2016 03:26 AM)DLJ Wrote:  ... and ...

[Image: animaux-immortels-tardigrade-gif.gif]

Nope. Tardigrades evolved to suit their environment, the universe was not fine tuned for tardigrades. Extremophiles are just exceptionally well adapted.

Really?

Who knew?

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31-01-2016, 04:43 AM
RE: Fine tuning
(31-01-2016 04:23 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(31-01-2016 03:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Nope. Tardigrades evolved to suit their environment, the universe was not fine tuned for tardigrades. Extremophiles are just exceptionally well adapted.

Really?

Who knew?

Drinking Beverage

Certainly not us, until very recently in our own history. Rolleyes

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31-01-2016, 05:16 AM
RE: Fine tuning
the universe is fine tuned for life... that is why humans can inhabit only one planet with so many natural disasters, mass extinctions in an obscure part on the universe..... and not to mention the asteroids, comets, black holes and everything in this universe that can turn this planet lifeless

the universe being fine tuned for wiping out life is a more valid statement since it does a pretty good job of being 99.9% inhospitable for life as we know it
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31-01-2016, 06:33 AM
RE: Fine tuning
(30-01-2016 04:11 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  So youve heard the nonsense about fine tuning..

If something was a few millimeteres this way or a few degrees that way etc. Theists like to point it out as evidence of a designer.

Does the fine tuning argument contradict God making the Sun stand still for Joshua?

The whole sun standing still thing underscores their primitive view of the world. The sun went around the Earth and it did so at god's behest.

[Image: hebrew-bible-flat-earth.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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31-01-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Fine tuning
Black holes are projected to last around 10^67 years. At the outside, life as we know it has lasted 10^9 years. For the vast majority of the time of the universe, there was no life. Not exactly "fine tuned" for something that existed for an infinitesimally small fraction of it's existence.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-01-2016, 09:07 AM
RE: Fine tuning
Our atmosphere wasn't fine tuned so we could breathe it.
Water wasn't fine tuned for fish to swim in it.

The fine tuned idea is based upon us existing first and then creating a universe in which we could survive in.

That's craziness.

Our evolutionary ancestors adapted to the changing environment or they died. Life will arise wherever it can.

My environment shapes me.
My environment wasn't created to fit my shape.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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31-01-2016, 09:38 AM
RE: Fine tuning
(31-01-2016 09:07 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Our atmosphere wasn't fine tuned so we could breathe it.
Water wasn't fine tuned for fish to swim in it.

The fine tuned idea is based upon us existing first and then creating a universe in which we could survive in.

That's craziness.

Our evolutionary ancestors adapted to the changing environment or they died. Life will arise wherever it can.

My environment shapes me.
My environment wasn't created to fit my shape.

the real disappointment for the fine-tuning bullshit is that even if it turned out to be true it still would be complete bullshit

it only applies to life as we know it on our planet as it is the only form of life we've ever know..... there is no reason why life can't form and exist in condition that are inhospitable to us considering that the earth billions of years ago would be inhospitable for us yet thats when life first emerged on this dust ball
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31-01-2016, 09:46 AM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2016 09:50 AM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: Fine tuning
(30-01-2016 09:50 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(30-01-2016 09:44 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  You also forgot how earth was created before light. Considering E=mc2, it is not possible (as we understand it) to have matter before light.

The whole creation business requires a HUGE violation of the first law of thermodynamics anyway.

Er.... hmmm.

e=mc2 doesn't actually imply that. But unless the matter is at absolute 0 it would be emitting light as emission rays or blackbody radiation. And if all the matter in the universe WERE at absolute zero... then the universe began with its heat death? By what mechanism would one even measure the passage of time under those circumstances?

How do you figure? If there is no light, there is no E term. No E, no m. And absolute zero is the cessation of molecular motion, but not the lowest entropic state. No E, no m, no molecules. Absolute zero is also not what you described in terms of no energy. Even if you could get atoms to absolute zero, the atoms would still be there, energy would still exist, so light would also exist in some form. You even said yourself:
Quote: But unless the matter is at absolute 0 it would be emitting light as emission rays or blackbody radiation.

Last I checked, light is energy (E=hv) so hv=mc2. If something is emitting any light, it is still mass in another form. What I said still applies. What you say about the universe beginning with heat death makes no sense because as far as we are aware, as we approach Planck time, the rules as we know it don't necessarily apply. And if I had a mechanism for anything prior to the big bang, I would be buddies with Krauss and Hawking. Absolute zero is irrelevant to what I said.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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31-01-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: Fine tuning
(31-01-2016 03:26 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(31-01-2016 03:20 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The universe is finely tuned to produce stars and black holes. Drinking Beverage

... and ...

[Image: animaux-immortels-tardigrade-gif.gif]

I love this line: How can someone look at this and not think Jesus?

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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31-01-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: Fine tuning
(31-01-2016 06:33 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(30-01-2016 04:11 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  So youve heard the nonsense about fine tuning..

If something was a few millimeteres this way or a few degrees that way etc. Theists like to point it out as evidence of a designer.

Does the fine tuning argument contradict God making the Sun stand still for Joshua?

The whole sun standing still thing underscores their primitive view of the world. The sun went around the Earth and it did so at god's behest.

[Image: hebrew-bible-flat-earth.jpg]

So I picked up the "bulletin" and was looking at it, which a family member brought home from church today. Seems Jesus still had that ancient world view, (or those writing about him did) .... Luke : 4 21-30 (somewhere in there) "Indeed I tell you there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when *the sky was closed for three and a half years* " Seems even that late, they still saw it as the vault of heaven.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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