Finite yet unbounded space?
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17-12-2013, 07:38 PM
 
Finite yet unbounded space?
Hey guys, do you think the theory that say "universe is finite yet unbounded" is a rational and plausible explanation? IMO the "finite but unbounded" universe is still a limited and finite universe. I think, universe is neither finite nor infinite because finite and infinite imply size, and size is a property of matter and space is nothing. We also can't say space "exist" because space isn't an object because it is nothing. So I will say space is eternal which mean have no beginning and end.

Any thoughts?
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17-12-2013, 09:00 PM
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
(17-12-2013 07:38 PM)Mike Wrote:  Hey guys, do you think the theory that say "universe is finite yet unbounded" is a rational and plausible explanation? IMO the "finite but unbounded" universe is still a limited and finite universe. I think, universe is neither finite nor infinite because finite and infinite imply size, and size is a property of matter and space is nothing. We also can't say space "exist" because space isn't an object because it is nothing. So I will say space is eternal which mean have no beginning and end.

Any thoughts?

My thought is can you please translate that into correct English, (with no non-sequiturs)? Spacetime is not "nothing", as Krauss pointed out.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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17-12-2013, 09:23 PM
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
(17-12-2013 07:38 PM)Mike Wrote:  Hey guys, do you think the theory that say "universe is finite yet unbounded" is a rational and plausible explanation? IMO the "finite but unbounded" universe is still a limited and finite universe. I think, universe is neither finite nor infinite because finite and infinite imply size, and size is a property of matter and space is nothing. We also can't say space "exist" because space isn't an object because it is nothing. So I will say space is eternal which mean have no beginning and end.

Any thoughts?

Finite and unbounded means that the geometry of space is closed. The two-dimensional analogue is the surface of a sphere. That surface has no edges.

In this kind of space, if you travel in a straight line you will eventually return to where you started.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-12-2013, 12:43 AM
 
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
(17-12-2013 09:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-12-2013 07:38 PM)Mike Wrote:  Hey guys, do you think the theory that say "universe is finite yet unbounded" is a rational and plausible explanation? IMO the "finite but unbounded" universe is still a limited and finite universe. I think, universe is neither finite nor infinite because finite and infinite imply size, and size is a property of matter and space is nothing. We also can't say space "exist" because space isn't an object because it is nothing. So I will say space is eternal which mean have no beginning and end.

Any thoughts?

Finite and unbounded means that the geometry of space is closed. The two-dimensional analogue is the surface of a sphere. That surface has no edges.

In this kind of space, if you travel in a straight line you will eventually return to where you started.

Yeah I know but it is still limited and finite because we are going back to the starting point. In my opinion, universe or space don't have any size, geometry, topology, dimension, etc. and universe is not finite or infinite because, space is not an object.
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18-12-2013, 12:46 AM
 
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
(17-12-2013 09:00 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-12-2013 07:38 PM)Mike Wrote:  Hey guys, do you think the theory that say "universe is finite yet unbounded" is a rational and plausible explanation? IMO the "finite but unbounded" universe is still a limited and finite universe. I think, universe is neither finite nor infinite because finite and infinite imply size, and size is a property of matter and space is nothing. We also can't say space "exist" because space isn't an object because it is nothing. So I will say space is eternal which mean have no beginning and end.

Any thoughts?

My thought is can you please translate that into correct English, (with no non-sequiturs)? Spacetime is not "nothing", as Krauss pointed out.

I mean, space is neither finite nor infinite because both of these terms can only be applied for objects, because only object (something that have shape and location) have size.

What do you mean by "spacetime isn't nothing"?
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18-12-2013, 04:04 AM
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
(18-12-2013 12:46 AM)Mike Wrote:  
(17-12-2013 09:00 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  My thought is can you please translate that into correct English, (with no non-sequiturs)? Spacetime is not "nothing", as Krauss pointed out.

I mean, space is neither finite nor infinite because both of these terms can only be applied for objects, because only object (something that have shape and location) have size.

What do you mean by "spacetime isn't nothing"?

Spacetime is an object. If it were rotating we would be able to make time machines.....it isn't though.
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18-12-2013, 06:30 AM
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
(18-12-2013 04:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 12:46 AM)Mike Wrote:  I mean, space is neither finite nor infinite because both of these terms can only be applied for objects, because only object (something that have shape and location) have size.

What do you mean by "spacetime isn't nothing"?

Spacetime is an object. If it were rotating we would be able to make time machines.....it isn't though.

Pay no attention to the troll behind the curtain, spouting ittelevant hypotheticals.
Spacetime is not an "object". Think dimension(s).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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18-12-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
(18-12-2013 12:43 AM)Mike Wrote:  
(17-12-2013 09:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  Finite and unbounded means that the geometry of space is closed. The two-dimensional analogue is the surface of a sphere. That surface has no edges.

In this kind of space, if you travel in a straight line you will eventually return to where you started.

Yeah I know but it is still limited and finite because we are going back to the starting point. In my opinion, universe or space don't have any size, geometry, topology, dimension, etc. and universe is not finite or infinite because, space is not an object.

Yabut, you're wrong. Big Grin

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19-12-2013, 04:16 AM
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
(18-12-2013 12:43 AM)Mike Wrote:  Yeah I know but it is still limited and finite because we are going back to the starting point. In my opinion, universe or space don't have any size, geometry, topology, dimension, etc. and universe is not finite or infinite because, space is not an object.

Isaac Newton pretty much thought this too until he conceived and preformed this experiment:





Space-time is a physical thing.
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19-12-2013, 06:53 AM
RE: Finite yet unbounded space?
See also: Frame dragging.




Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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