Finland - basic income trial
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25-01-2017, 09:45 AM
RE: Finland - basic income trial
(25-01-2017 09:18 AM)Reducetarian Wrote:  It's similar to the case made for the Housing First program in Salt Lake City that provides homes to chronically homeless people first, and then works on solving their other problems (mental and physical health, employment etc.): it's a more efficient way to spend tax dollars.

Thanks for sharing this! I knew I had read something about this a year (or longer) ago but couldn't find it. I'm involved in a local non-profit that works on this very thing.

Many thanks!
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25-01-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: Finland - basic income trial
(25-01-2017 03:54 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(25-01-2017 03:41 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Combination of both I guess. Not overtly socialist though as they give you that in place of benefits and who knows how it would look if implemented on larger scale.

Just spit-balling it from an American perspective. This would get instantly demonized by Republicans as being 'socialist', and therefore evil; even if it seems like it respects the choice of the individual more and would allow more money to go into the wider economy which would help for-profit businesses that already provide necessities.

It's an interesting American conservative Catch-22.

Yep. Funny thing is they usually discover "empathy" and accept "socialist" solutions when they are personally affected - never before. Like that Obamacare Republican supporter who praised it in front of Trump.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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25-01-2017, 10:41 AM
RE: Finland - basic income trial
Such studies work, because they're observed.

Take out the observer in the system, and it quickly becomes "Lord of the Flies".

...

It's like Communism. In small scale - -where everyone knows everyone else -- and KNOWS "somebody's watching" - communes work very well.

Everyone gets along, nobody wants.

But, when you enlarge the scale to the point that it becomes monolithic - enough people start to notice the slackers sitting on their asses -- and begin to wonder - "Why am I busting MY ass??" It goes downhill from there.

It's what took down the Soviet Union.

.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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25-01-2017, 11:10 AM
RE: Finland - basic income trial
(25-01-2017 09:18 AM)Reducetarian Wrote:  See, here's what I don't get about close-minded dogmatic people and their opposition to social programs: you can be anywhere on the political spectrum, when you see a program that helps people AND saves money, why not give a try, even if it initially seems counter-intuitive. What have you got to lose? If it doesn't work, you'll have the data to back up your claim. If it does work, well, everyone wins.

You practically answered your own question. Close-minded dogmatic people will not consider something with which they initially disagree cause they're close-minded dogmatic people. They will find rationalizations which allow them retain their dogmas and that's all.

Bigger issue is how to appeal to broader part of populace, not those who want to be unconvinced. Finland case could be used in future I guess, we will see though for what cause.

(25-01-2017 10:41 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Such studies work, because they're observed.

Take out the observer in the system, and it quickly becomes "Lord of the Flies".

...

It's like Communism. In small scale - -where everyone knows everyone else -- and KNOWS "somebody's watching" - communes work very well.

Everyone gets along, nobody wants.

But, when you enlarge the scale to the point that it becomes monolithic - enough people start to notice the slackers sitting on their asses -- and begin to wonder - "Why am I busting MY ass??" It goes downhill from there.

It's what took down the Soviet Union.

.....

It's hardly about slackers when you can't live on such cash - it's meant to supplement income, not to give everyone money to live how would they wish.

As for SU I would point towards arms race, Afgan war, authoritarian rule, corruption, incompetent centralist economy and disillusionment with ideology as being more important to it's downfall than it being welfare state or at least something similar to it. People there weren't being paid for just being citizen.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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25-01-2017, 04:18 PM
RE: Finland - basic income trial
Be a nice way to increase money velocity in the economy, for those who already work. With the extra money they could buy more pointless materialistic plastic tat, or with an increased income, be eligible for more debt.

For those who dont work, I suppose it has to be compared to what benefits they would recieve anyway (unemployment, housing etc)

Its a nice idea, to give everyone money, but its not being brought into place by do gooders with a moral task to help the world. Its probably being trialled for many other reasons, like reducing expenditures in other areas, kicking the dying world economy once more, etc.

I know that if they did it here in the UK. Hundred of thousands would not be able to live in certain areas due to the cost of living. Poor people would just pool in bigger numbers in low income areas.

All whilst big businesses would increase prices and take their cut of the increased spending Drinking Beverage

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I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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