Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
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29-09-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 03:30 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Putting Kim Davis in jail is torture because it caused her physical and emotional anguish and was punishment for the purpose of compelling her to do something. It is not torture to the same degree as waterboarding but it is torture none the less.

In which case all punishment is torture. Thereby making the term meaningless.

(29-09-2015 03:30 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Suppose Snidnely Whiplash chained Nell Fenwick to the tracks and locked the chain with a combination lock. A train is coming and Dudley Do-Right has no way to save Nell except by extracting the combination of the lock from Snidnely Whiplash. Dudley Do-Right would be justified in beating the combination out of Snidely who would give it because he knows that giving only the correct combination will save him from being beat to death.

This never happens.

When you invent the scenarios, it's obviously trivial to make them show what you'd like. Reality doesn't have to play along.

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29-09-2015, 03:53 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 01:40 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 12:28 PM)Ash Wrote:  If you support waterboarding, you should have to undergo waterboarding first to prove it's humane.

Many people have claimed to have done it, to prove it isn't a big deal.

How many that have done it really think it isn't a big deal? Everyone I've heard who tried it calls it torture. Hitchens tried it and called it torture. Mancow said no way that's torture. And then Mancow tried it.




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29-09-2015, 04:05 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 03:30 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Putting Kim Davis in jail is torture because it caused her physical and emotional anguish and was punishment for the purpose of compelling her to do something. It is not torture to the same degree as waterboarding but it is torture none the less.

So by your logic, putting a repeat drunk driver in jail for 5 years is torture? You don't seem to know the difference between torture and a consequence.

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The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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29-09-2015, 04:26 PM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2015 04:32 PM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 03:44 PM)cjlr Wrote:  In which case all punishment is torture. Thereby making the term meaningless.

The term is meaningless as far as I am concerned. One persons torture is simply another persons interrogation techniques.

(29-09-2015 03:44 PM)cjlr Wrote:  This never happens.

When you invent the scenarios, it's obviously trivial to make them show what you'd like. Reality doesn't have to play along.

Shortly after William Buckley was captured by Hezbollah in Lebanon many of his fellow agents either disappeared or were known to be killed. How did this happen? Because Hezbollah tortured Buckley for 15 months and he rolled on his cohorts.

When Russians were kidnapped in Lebanon and negotiations for their release broke down. A close relative of the kidnappers was then kidnapped. The Russians(presumably) sent the testicles of the person they kidnapped to the original kidnappers....who then released their captives.

There are plenty of situations were torture has yielded outcomes desired by those doing the torturing.
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29-09-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 04:05 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 03:30 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Putting Kim Davis in jail is torture because it caused her physical and emotional anguish and was punishment for the purpose of compelling her to do something. It is not torture to the same degree as waterboarding but it is torture none the less.

So by your logic, putting a repeat drunk driver in jail for 5 years is torture? You don't seem to know the difference between torture and a consequence.

One persons torture is just another person's consequence
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29-09-2015, 04:42 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 03:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 01:40 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Many people have claimed to have done it, to prove it isn't a big deal.

How many that have done it really think it isn't a big deal? Everyone I've heard who tried it calls it torture. Hitchens tried it and called it torture. Mancow said no way that's torture. And then Mancow tried it.




I agree it's torture.

I know there were some...i know that fox news darling didn't think it was a problem and claimed to have had it done to him.

The dude who shredded all those documents during Iran contra...


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29-09-2015, 04:49 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 04:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 04:05 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  So by your logic, putting a repeat drunk driver in jail for 5 years is torture? You don't seem to know the difference between torture and a consequence.

One persons torture is just another person's consequence

So you're happy to torture people to get ahead? What makes you different from the scum you're fighting then?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-09-2015, 04:50 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 04:42 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 03:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  How many that have done it really think it isn't a big deal? Everyone I've heard who tried it calls it torture. Hitchens tried it and called it torture. Mancow said no way that's torture. And then Mancow tried it.




I agree it's torture.

I know there were some...i know that fox news darling didn't think it was a problem and claimed to have had it done to him.

The dude who shredded all those documents during Iran contra...

If you polled a prison population and asked if their incarceration constituted torture, at least some if not most would say that it did.

Torture is too nebulous a word to be meaningful. I don't have a problem making people suffer in order to compel them to provide information, to take a particular action, or as punishment. However I am not going to draw some arbitrary line and say this is torture and this isn't. The circumstances are going to define that line and not my whim.
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29-09-2015, 04:58 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 04:49 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 04:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  One persons torture is just another person's consequence

So you're happy to torture people to get ahead? What makes you different from the scum you're fighting then?

The difference between you and me is this. You think that waterboarding is intrinsically extreme and can never be justified. I do not. I think the situation determines whether or not water boarding is extreme. I am happy that Fiorina is not so inflexible as to never consider waterboarding.
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29-09-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 04:42 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 03:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  How many that have done it really think it isn't a big deal? Everyone I've heard who tried it calls it torture. Hitchens tried it and called it torture. Mancow said no way that's torture. And then Mancow tried it.




I agree it's torture.

I know there were some...i know that fox news darling didn't think it was a problem and claimed to have had it done to him.

The dude who shredded all those documents during Iran contra...

Oliver North? I know that when the Japanese did it to us we charged them with war crimes.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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