Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
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29-09-2015, 05:42 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 04:58 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 04:49 PM)morondog Wrote:  So you're happy to torture people to get ahead? What makes you different from the scum you're fighting then?

The difference between you and me is this. You think that waterboarding is intrinsically extreme and can never be justified. I do not. I think the situation determines whether or not water boarding is extreme. I am happy that Fiorina is not so inflexible as to never consider waterboarding.

I think dickheads fighting other dickheads while claiming to be morally right have some obligation to actually, y'know, *be* morally right Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-09-2015, 05:51 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 05:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 04:42 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I agree it's torture.

I know there were some...i know that fox news darling didn't think it was a problem and claimed to have had it done to him.

The dude who shredded all those documents during Iran contra...

Oliver North? I know that when the Japanese did it to us we charged them with war crimes.

Damn straight and even I'm pretty sure McCain spoke out against it too.

But yeah Ollie said it wasnt a big deal..,.of course he was a big douche.

Some senator also volunteered to have it done...

This was why I stopped watching faux news.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-09-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
I mean if it's a gentle procedure and not harmful at all *why the fuck would it make people confess shit*?

It's torture pure and simple.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-09-2015, 05:58 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 03:36 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Funny that your forgiving nonsense is the high point of your life. You need some Gwynnies. Big Grin

Forgiving people is not a high point of my life any more than insults directed at me are the high points in the lives of those slinging them. You never say those people need some Gwynnies....why is that?
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29-09-2015, 06:01 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 05:55 PM)morondog Wrote:  I mean if it's a gentle procedure and not harmful at all *why the fuck would it make people confess shit*?

It's torture pure and simple.

Oh yeah totally and it's not like this is all they do.

And I have to wonder about the information gathered as a result of extreme torture as well.

No

People will say anything to make that shit stop.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-09-2015, 06:16 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 05:58 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 03:36 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Funny that your forgiving nonsense is the high point of your life. You need some Gwynnies. Big Grin

Forgiving people is not a high point of my life any more than insults directed at me are the high points in the lives of those slinging them. You never say those people need some Gwynnies....why is that?

Lies. Tongue

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29-09-2015, 06:34 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 06:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 05:55 PM)morondog Wrote:  I mean if it's a gentle procedure and not harmful at all *why the fuck would it make people confess shit*?

It's torture pure and simple.

Oh yeah totally and it's not like this is all they do.

And I have to wonder about the information gathered as a result of extreme torture as well.

No

People will say anything to make that shit stop.

A certain percentage of the time, they tell the truth to get that shit to stop....or not even start. Child murderer Magnus Gäfgen led police to the body of a child he killed simply motivated by the threat of being tortured. He then sued the police for threatening to torture him.

http://www.dw.com/en/child-murderer-sues...a-14921385
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29-09-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 06:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I have to wonder about the information gathered as a result of extreme torture as well.

Is it safe?




#sigh
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29-09-2015, 07:26 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
Just a couple things to add...

First, in regards to it not producing reliable confessions, a good interrogator is well aware of this fact, and it is not simply a matter of making them uncomfortable until they say some random shit, then assuming that this random shit is true. Whether we agree with the tactics or not, these guys are not stupid. It's just one tool of many and, strategically implemented, it is a useful tool. Maybe not an ethical one, but a useful one.

Second, in regards to those who do it having it done to them, that used to be standard in some schools. Up until the big public blowout, getting waterboarded was a part of SERE. And though it's no longer a part of any official training, when I'm out in the field with a bunch of fucked up people like myself, sleep deprived, and restless, we've been known to start waterboarding each other just for shits and giggles. I've also been tazed a couple times and pepper sprayed more times than I can count. We do in fact make a point of experiencing the methods we utilize, within reason. We're obviously not gonna stab each other in the kidneys or see if we're manly enough to take a 5.56 and shrug it off Tongue

That said, I don't even want to get into the debate as to whether or not waterboarding is ethical. That has more to do with one's level of empathy than with the content of the debate, and is therefore difficult to argue either way.

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29-09-2015, 07:32 PM
RE: Fiorina Tries Waterboarding
(29-09-2015 07:26 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Second, in regards to those who do it having it done to them, that used to be standard in some schools. Up until the big public blowout, getting waterboarded was a part of SERE. .

I have no doubt that USMC Lieutenant Colonel North experienced waterboarding during SERE training and said "Is that all you got bitch?" Almost all of us are not USMC Lieutenant Colonels.

#sigh
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