Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-11-2016, 12:13 PM
Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
Most people believe dinosaurs became extinct before any humans existed, but many cultures have legends of creatures called dragons that closely resemble dinosaurs. This fact indicates that the extinction of dinosaurs must be very recent. (There are some who believe that there are still living dinosaurs. http://www.newanimal.org/dinosaurs.htm ) Some of these dragon legends speak of dragons that breath fire. Is it possible that such a creature actually existed? The best way to answer that question is to look at an animal that we know does exist, the bombardier beetle. Here is what Wikipedia says about it.

Quote:Bombardier beetles are ground beetles (Carabidae) in the tribes Brachinini, Paussini, Ozaenini, or Metriini—more than 500 species altogether—which are most notable for the defense mechanism that gives them their name: when disturbed, they eject a hot noxious chemical spray from the tip of their abdomen with a popping sound.

The spray is produced from a reaction between two chemical compounds, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide, which are stored in two reservoirs in the beetle’s abdomen. When the aqueous solution of hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide reaches the vestibule, catalysts facilitate the decomposition of the hydrogen peroxide and the oxidation of the hydroquinone. Heat from the reaction brings the mixture to near the boiling point of water and produces gas that drives the ejection. The damage caused can be fatal to attacking insects. Some bombardier beetles can direct the spray over a wide range of directions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle

Bombardier beetles defend themselves by expelling a hot liquid from their bodies. What if some dinosaurs had this ability but expelled the liquid from its nose or mouth? Because dinosaurs are much larger than beetles the amount of liquid would be much greater and if it landed on something flammable it might even be capable of starting a fire. To an observer it would appear that the dinosaur or dragon was breathing fire. Fire breathing dragons might not be a product of human imagination but something that actually did exist at one time.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2016, 01:40 PM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2016 02:14 PM by Commonsensei.)
RE: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
(08-11-2016 12:13 PM)theophilus Wrote:  Most people believe dinosaurs became extinct before any humans existed, but many cultures have legends of creatures called dragons that closely resemble dinosaurs. This fact indicates that the extinction of dinosaurs must be very recent. (There are some who believe that there are still living dinosaurs. http://www.newanimal.org/dinosaurs.htm ) Some of these dragon legends speak of dragons that breath fire. Is it possible that such a creature actually existed? The best way to answer that question is to look at an animal that we know does exist, the bombardier beetle. Here is what Wikipedia says about it.

Quote:Bombardier beetles are ground beetles (Carabidae) in the tribes Brachinini, Paussini, Ozaenini, or Metriini—more than 500 species altogether—which are most notable for the defense mechanism that gives them their name: when disturbed, they eject a hot noxious chemical spray from the tip of their abdomen with a popping sound.

The spray is produced from a reaction between two chemical compounds, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide, which are stored in two reservoirs in the beetle’s abdomen. When the aqueous solution of hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide reaches the vestibule, catalysts facilitate the decomposition of the hydrogen peroxide and the oxidation of the hydroquinone. Heat from the reaction brings the mixture to near the boiling point of water and produces gas that drives the ejection. The damage caused can be fatal to attacking insects. Some bombardier beetles can direct the spray over a wide range of directions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle

Bombardier beetles defend themselves by expelling a hot liquid from their bodies. What if some dinosaurs had this ability but expelled the liquid from its nose or mouth? Because dinosaurs are much larger than beetles the amount of liquid would be much greater and if it landed on something flammable it might even be capable of starting a fire. To an observer it would appear that the dinosaur or dragon was breathing fire. Fire breathing dragons might not be a product of human imagination but something that actually did exist at one time.

Wow wee wow, wow.

Ok.. where to being.

Let me ask you these questions.

Do you believe that Cyclops existed?
And I mean as in Greek Myths.
[Image: L8.3Polyphemos.jpg]


If you look at this skull. Would you say it looks like a Cyclops skull? It's large, The open gap in the center. Monstrous shape?
[Image: 32dbd614a86c2e97e097a815a44b245b.jpg]

Depending on your response is how I'll be able to proceed.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Commonsensei's post
08-11-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
(08-11-2016 01:40 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Do you believe that Cyclops existed?

That dude seems awfully excited about poking the Cyclops.



I'm just sayin'.... Big Grin

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
(08-11-2016 12:13 PM)theophilus Wrote:  Most people believe dinosaurs became extinct before any humans existed, but many cultures have legends of creatures called dragons that closely resemble dinosaurs. This fact indicates that the extinction of dinosaurs must be very recent.

The creatures that most closely resemble dinosaurs today are birds. We know you are too ignorant to know why that is, Theo. Look it up. Thanks for demonstrating, yet again, your complete inability to process information. The legendary creatures actually resemble large fish, ("leviathan") and other known (non-dinosaur) animals. Your desperation is showing, Theophilus. Science doesn't "believe" anything. There are mountains of EVIDENCE, DNA, archeological, carbon dating that tell science when they lived. It's NOT what you ignorant Fundie Bible Thumpers think.
Ignorance at this level is simple intentional perversity.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
Please move this to Pseudoscience. Facepalm

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
08-11-2016, 02:26 PM
Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
Griffons and krakkens exist top then right?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
Well, he's technically right... while the group called dinosaurs are extinct, the dinosaur group known as theropods produced a sub-group that didn't actually go extinct. We call them birds, today. We've known about Archaeopteryx since Darwin's time, but in the past 20 years the fossil beds of China have yielded up literally thousands of new examples, dozens of new species, that have let us trace that evolutionary path through time.

However, since you're referring to the "Leviathan" and "Behemoth" from Job, no... that sort of dinosaur has not been around since the Cretaceous-Paleogene Extinction Event , roughly 66 million years ago, when an asteroid struck near Chicxulub, Mexico, just off the coast of the Yucatan peninsula. We have huge amounts of evidence of this impact, aside from the crater itself. There is a clear layer of rock full of iridium, which is rare on earth but common in comets and asteroids, at 1000 times the rate of the rest of the layers. This layer also shows a type of crystals that only form when exposed to the type of shock caused by a massive impact. Above this layer, dinosaurs of the type you describe are never found. Below it, they are common. The guy who proved this, back around 1980, won the Nobel Prize in Physics for his discovery.

We even know the size of the impact because the crater is visible on radar ground-scans from satellite, adn we can thus calculate the amount of energy that was released by the impact-- and then determine what that would have done to the biosphere of the planet. It was an explosion with a force over a BILLION times as powerful as the A-bomb. The only things on land that survived it were creatures that were able to burrow (such as the early mammals), dive and remain underwater without much need for food because of their cold-blooded nature (such as the crocodilians), or fly vast ranges in search of scarce food resources (such as the birds). Giant creatures like the dinos simply did not meet the energy budget requirements to survive the changes to the earth caused by that impact. The math doesn't even come close to adding up.

As the others have pointed out to you, it's not hard to understand that people of ancient times, with no idea what a dinosaur was, would find fossil bones where erosion had exposed their burial sites, and make up wild stories about these huge creatures of a wild and unknown shape.

It's far more probable that the writers of Job were simply referring to a legend of that day, and not to a real creature. It would be like someone finding a copy of The Hobbit, 3000 years from now, and concluding that Smaug the dragon was real.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RocketSurgeon76's post
08-11-2016, 03:59 PM
RE: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
Oh, yes, I almost forgot to mention:

Since Job 40 specifically refers to the Behemoth drinking water from the Jordan river, I should point out that even if I take the earliest imaginable date for Job being written, back during the time of the Patriarchs, according to evangelical "scholars" (I use quotation marks because they're often less-than-honest about their dating methods, but I'm trying to use the earliest possible date for the sake of argument here-- the vast majority of scholars place Job's authorship in the 6th century BCE), we know that the earliest cities on earth were in that region (Jericho, Çatal Höyük, and Jubayl) for the past 9000 years...

So, basically >5000 years of people living in that area prior to the writing of Job, with no mention of these creatures. If this doesn't scream "Hebrew Myth-story" to you, I don't know what else I can tell you.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
08-11-2016, 04:08 PM
RE: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
The definition differs from believer to believer. I'm heard some say it's a Hippo, others a wildebeest.

Verse translated by Stephen Mitchell: "Look now: the Beast that I made: he eats grass like a bull. Look: the power in his thighs, the pulsing sinews of his belly. His penis stiffens like a pine; his testicles bulge with vigor."

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-11-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: Fire breathing dragons and bombardier beetles
I'm afraid they're screwed by their own reckoning.
Ya get yer beasts, and ya got yer monsters. Ya got yer wild animals, and ya got yer tame animals. Oh wait.

Genesis 1:25-31 So God made the wild animals, the tame animals, and all the small crawling animals to produce more of their own kind.

Their god created "tame" animals. Facepalm
Weeping

Now we KNOW (in general) how animal domestication happened.
And it wasn't the gods that done it.

Woops.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: